Microsoft Formally Ordered to Carry Java
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you might not be so glib if you had signed a contract with MS which they then violated. you might actually feel that you are owed something. -c
Perhaps, but why frist sue MS to STOP them distributing their JVM ( a move I agree with ), and THEN as a seperate issue sue for them to redistribute yours ? Why was that an afterthought ? Surely if there is a contract then the first lawsuit would have sought to uphold it ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Christian Graus wrote: Last time I checked, Microsoft did not ship windows with ANY of my software included. This is a clear case of Microsoft building a monopoly and causing me to unfairly have to rely on people wanting my software enough to source it for themselves. Those dirty dogs. Is there no depth they will not lower themselves to !!!! Recebtly created a new standard or language I don't know of Christian? I don't care how crappy Java is (I've never used it) Sun created it, Microsoft licensed it. Then butchered it and broke it's run anywhere philosophy. So they fucked up and have to live with it now. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: Recebtly created a new standard or language I don't know of Christian? I've created plenty of standards, but no-one seems to be adopting them..... Michael Martin wrote: I don't care how crappy Java is It's too much like C# for Microsoft to claim it's no good. Michael Martin wrote: So they f***ed up and have to live with it now. Microsoft did the wrong thing when they added to Java. But stopping them from distributing a bad version is a world apart from making them distribute it at all, and if there was a contract in place, the first lawsuit should have dealt with it. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Hmmm. Do you speak from experience? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraokano. as the other reply says, MS and Sun had a contract. apparently MS broke it. -c
Zzzzz...
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Michael Martin wrote: Recebtly created a new standard or language I don't know of Christian? I've created plenty of standards, but no-one seems to be adopting them..... Michael Martin wrote: I don't care how crappy Java is It's too much like C# for Microsoft to claim it's no good. Michael Martin wrote: So they f***ed up and have to live with it now. Microsoft did the wrong thing when they added to Java. But stopping them from distributing a bad version is a world apart from making them distribute it at all, and if there was a contract in place, the first lawsuit should have dealt with it. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: I've created plenty of standards, but no-one seems to be adopting them..... Then your keeping them secret, I would happily adopt them, but I don't know about them. Christian Graus wrote: Microsoft did the wrong thing when they added to Java. But stopping them from distributing a bad version is a world apart from making them distribute it at all, and if there was a contract in place, the first lawsuit should have dealt with it. True, but if my memory of a John Simmons post is correct. The first ruling was worded badly and Microsoft complied with the wording and not the intent of the ruling. The second ruling seems to be redressing this fact and getting Microsoft to do what it should have. Did you notice my great typing and new word creation skills? Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: I've created plenty of standards, but no-one seems to be adopting them..... Then your keeping them secret, I would happily adopt them, but I don't know about them. Christian Graus wrote: Microsoft did the wrong thing when they added to Java. But stopping them from distributing a bad version is a world apart from making them distribute it at all, and if there was a contract in place, the first lawsuit should have dealt with it. True, but if my memory of a John Simmons post is correct. The first ruling was worded badly and Microsoft complied with the wording and not the intent of the ruling. The second ruling seems to be redressing this fact and getting Microsoft to do what it should have. Did you notice my great typing and new word creation skills? Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: Then your keeping them secret, I would happily adopt them, but I don't know about them. That's coz you never call me :-) Michael Martin wrote: Did you notice my great typing and new word creation skills? Word creation ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Sean Cundiff wrote: but surely they mean the Sun JVM I think any Sun-compatible JVM will do. :beer:
#include <stddisclaimer> If this is the case I hope Microsoft includes IBM's VM. While neither side has been the angel in this dispute Sun is really trying to take advantage of the trial and anti-Microsoft sentiment to cover for the fact that they completely dropped the ball w.r.t client-side Java through no fault other than their own. As I've said elsewhere, the problem is that Sun never created a (client) killer app in Java, which is what they should have been trying to do since day one. This is true for any platform, and Sun trying to forcibly pave the way for Java on clients without a compelling app is like the proverbial cart pulling the horse. But they're too blinded by their Microsoft jealousy to see this; they would rather lay low, play the victim, and sue. I can think of several small, medium, and large scale consumer apps that Sun could have easily written in Java, and if they publicized/pushed them correctly millions of users would not only have the latest version of Java, but could have a favorable* experience directly associated with those apps and the Java brand. (* My opinion is that client side Java apps are still kludgy, slow, and inconsistent with the native platform as compared to Win32 or .NET apps, so a favorible user experience would be contingent on Sun making client side Java not suck, but the rest of my point still stands.) The above is my personal opinion only, yadda yadda. I was actually a big fan of Java in the beginning and almost went to work for Sun.
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Michael Martin wrote: Then your keeping them secret, I would happily adopt them, but I don't know about them. That's coz you never call me :-) Michael Martin wrote: Did you notice my great typing and new word creation skills? Word creation ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: That's coz you never call me :) You don't have those catchy ads on the late night telly though do you. :wtf: Christian Graus wrote: Word creation ? Recebtly. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Michael Martin wrote: Recebtly created a new standard or language I don't know of Christian? I've created plenty of standards, but no-one seems to be adopting them..... Michael Martin wrote: I don't care how crappy Java is It's too much like C# for Microsoft to claim it's no good. Michael Martin wrote: So they f***ed up and have to live with it now. Microsoft did the wrong thing when they added to Java. But stopping them from distributing a bad version is a world apart from making them distribute it at all, and if there was a contract in place, the first lawsuit should have dealt with it. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: I've created plenty of standards, but no-one seems to be adopting them..... Taxonomy of morons ? :laugh:
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Christian Graus wrote: That's coz you never call me :) You don't have those catchy ads on the late night telly though do you. :wtf: Christian Graus wrote: Word creation ? Recebtly. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: You don't have those catchy ads on the late night telly though do you. I dunno, I don't watch TV. But I doubt it. Michael Martin wrote: Recebtly Ah.... Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002