A Curious Situation At Work
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Roger Wright wrote:
clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise.
Clean your desk and take the immediate payrise, then ask for a review of your pay in relation to similar positions in your area.
Quad skating his way through the world since the early 80's... Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Roger Wright wrote:
There are actually a number of jobs offered that pay far more, but the odds of someone my age landing one of them are fairly slim.
Well in my opinion, with age comes experience. :thumbsup:
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Roger Wright wrote:
I'm 58
Ya poor old bugger! I'd put most of the points above under his nose and ask for a reason why you are being under paid. Worst case is you get the measly 10%, anything more can then be treated as cream. Or go in and ask for a 25% raise to bring you near where the minimum is. Or go in and ask for a 40% raise to bring you to where you think you are worth. Which ever number you want to go for I'd guess he will whittle it down considerably! Personally I'd ask for the 40% plus 3 months bonus per year to make up for the gross insult of underpaying a professional. Then go looking for another job! I'm the same age and similar depth of experience, thank god I don't have the geo ties to anywhere so I can be a tart and go for the money!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Roger Wright wrote:
but the odds of someone my age landing one of them are fairly slim
Don't think like this. This coupled with some bitterness towards your employers or job can spiral into "I hate my job but can't leave". Been there before and its a bad place to be. I'd clean the desk (which is a very odd condition for a raise), take the money and start looking for a new job. If your boss is willing to throw around +10% over a dirty desk and you're a valued employee with other employment options then I think you have the upper hand and can squeeze your boss for whatever you want.
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
It's a test. He's seeing how easily he can control you. NO WAIT! It's a test. He's seeing how much you care about money. NO WAIT! It's a test. He's seeing if you've been lying all these years about "needing" the clutter. NO WAIT! It's not a test. It's just an excuse to give you the raise he knows you deserve, because he thinks (as rightly he should!) that nobody in their right mind would refuse thousands of dollars for 10 minutes (30 minutes?) of work.
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Bosses play like that. Giving you crumbs and telling you it's freshly baked, still oven-warm bread. I wouldn't take the raise based on the condition to 'clean' your desk (unless things are starting to move on their own, that is), which is about the most stupid reason I ever heard to give someone a raise. I would: a) throw the figures at him. b) say you'll keep your desk 'cleaner' if he gives you a 10% raise (or you could also try to bargain for 12% or 15%). So, in fact turn the condition around.
double raise = 0.1;
if(cleandesk){
salary += salary*raise;
}//becomes
salary += salary*raise;
if(raise >= 0.1){
CleanDesk();
}Good luck and let us know what happened will you ? :-)
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Why not counter and say you'll take a 30% increase to keep your desk clean? If you clean your desk, you'll only clutter it again and he probably hasn't considered this. This way, you get a better pay rate and he gets to keep his OCD under control.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Roger, the one thing a lot of us have come to appreciate about you is your eloquence and how you explain things. You have a wise bonce on the top of your shoulders and I'm quite sure that on the day you'll know what to say. It seems your boss is more concerned about his own shallow existence than he is about appreciating the excellent bloke who works for him. I don't know if engineering is like it is in the UK where everyone seems to know what everyone is doing. Have you thought of applying for some of those jobs if only to "test the water" and see if ageism is indeed the malaise you understand it to be? You and I are the same age. I told my wife a few years ago that when I was made redundant in 2009 it would probably be my last job in IT. For some reason though, I've always found jobs but unfortunately I've often gone to small companies that don't have the reserves to see them through difficult trading periods. At 58, I still hold my own against the young 'uns. I'd really like my current job to be my last job before I hang up my keyboard but the more I have to move around the more upbeat I am. :)
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Clean the desk and take the raise. It'll probably take a month after the raise for the desk to get fully cluttered again, or was the keeping of the desk clean a part of the deal?
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES! Abraham Lincoln
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Seriously, Given your age, take the 10%, smile and say that it is great that he is offering it and think of your retirement.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. CCC Link[^] Can you Help?
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Roger Wright wrote:
clean my desk and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise.
Sounds like an opening bid. Come back with: "How about I leave my desk the way it is and you raise me by 20%". Should get interesting then.
Peter Wasser Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. Frank Zappa
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
The possibility may lie in that he is trying to get you closer to grade and threw in the "clean your desk" hoping for a little bonus for himself. :)
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Good luck as I would clean my desk, take the raise, and look for a better job. At least you are in sight of the bell curve. I am so far to the left that a 10% raise would only get me in sight of it. Notice I said look for a better job not get a better job. I too am pushing 58 and worry about the "age discrimination", especially since I do not interview well. Once I am on the job they like me but getting there is hard for me.
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Tell him you're too busy to do a complete clean-up -- customer needs come first, obviously -- and suggest that you clean 5% of your desk per week in return for a 5% pay rise per week.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Roger Wright wrote:
I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all.
Sounds to me you need to figure out your priorities first. If in fact compensation is of concern then you should start looking for another job with the understanding that you might be giving something up. This doesn't of course mean that you must take the job, but an offer on the table, means that you would have a stronger negotiating stance - as long as your boss considers it a real offer and one that you would take. If however you want to stay where you are then you should look into asking for a raise every siz months. Not with any intention of getting it that often but merely in the hope that an incremental increase might add up over time.
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h
Your boss may not have considered that your pay is low, and is thinking that giving a 10% increase is a good offer - so I think you need to let him know, nicely, that you will still be being paid less than you are worth. In the scheme of things there has been no change in circumstance except the boss if offering you more money on condition of a tidy desk. If you have been working happily (as far as he is aware) on your current income, then he will be seeing it as a favour to you. I think I would tidy my desk, then speak to the boss and tel him that his offer prompted you to investigate salaries for your role, and you have seen that, even with the increase you will be undervalued. Ask if you can have a regular salary review from now on against market values; accept the 10% gracefully and then hope that he will review your income again shortly. Worst case is you get a raise of 10% and have to tidy your desk.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I think you need to find a suitably tactful way to say 'if you think money will motivate me, why aren't you paying me what I'm worth?'.
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My boss, the GM, last week offered me a proposition - clean my desk (I work best in clutter, while he can't stand an out of place paper clip) and he'll give me an immediate 10% raise. That sounds good on the face of things, but consider: I was hired at an extremely low wage to do something much easier - maintaining customer databases and company computer systems - but I was rather quickly utilized for much more challenging tasks, like designing underground electrical distribution systems for new development projects. Since then I've graduated to designing major projects, including structural steel and concrete foundations, water well sites, and wastewater collection systems and lift stations. Expanding my skills has been entirely at my own expense, on my own time. In addition, I have more years of engineering experience than the GM, though admittedly most of those years were spent doing stuff a lot harder than anything we do. I've done the research, not just on headhunter sites, but the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and I've discounted my experience to include only the 8 years I've spent in the electrical power business, ignoring twenty years of project management and electronics engineering. My current salary is 2/3 of the median for this industry, in this state; the raise I'm being offered will bring me up to the 2% level statewide. I'm not about to quit over this - it's a fun job working with good people who don't demand a whole lot of formality, and I appreciate that a lot. Corporate pricks and their rules deserve the Bobbit treatment... But I wonder how much I should push this issue. My boss proposed it in a manner that suggested that I should be delighted to receive such an offer; to my mind, it's an offer to increase my income to minimum wage. Professionally, it's a gross insult, but I don't want to push it too hard. I'm 58, and despite industry claims to the contrary, age discrimination is alive and well in Engineering. If you're over 40, you're unemployable. I'm lucky to have a job at my age, in this country, but I can't afford to retire yet, and unless I can raise my base salary to a much higher level - industry average, at least - I won't be able to afford retiring at all. How hard do you think I should push on this issue? My planned approach is to tell the GM that I much appreciate any increase I receive, but that I'd really like to understand why he persists in paying me a salary so far below industry averages, despite reviews that rate my performance as far above average. In truth, he h