Definition of respect
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Nice topic and excellent post... :) :| ...but good luck trying to get any of the serious anti-Bush and anti-US folk on CP to understand any of this. Their hatred runs deep and your logic means nothing to them. I'm afraid you are fighting a losing battle. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
Mike Mullikin wrote: but good luck trying to get any of the serious anti-Bush and anti-US folk on CP to understand any of this You are just fanning the flames Mike with statements like that*. * Not saying I don't fan flames, I do, but don't try and hold yourself above "us" and then say something like that
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRoger Wright wrote: Using a feather is kinky; using the whole chicken is perverted!
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Cartman's observation: a nightstick does wonders for getting respect.
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
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It appears that my comments in a previous thread made a few people upset.:eek: As far as I could tell, it revolves directly around the idea of "respect". Who is supposed to get it and why? Some of the people who responded to my posts appear to believe that respect is only for people you like or agree with. Where did this definition of respect come from? Respect is/has always been a simple concept: treat someone properly in reference to the relationship between you. For example: I'm a human, you're a human -- we should treat each other in a civil manner (think Golden Rule). Another example: A bear comes after me. I run out of respect for the danger he poses, but I don't have the same respect for him as I would for a non-threatening human. In the bear's case, if he were to indicate his desire to remain a threat, yet temporarily lose his ability to harm me, my logical choice would be to hurt him at least enough to scare him off. All this, while respecting the bear -- treating him properly in reference to the relationship between us. Another one: Police officers have the authority to do stop us when we are speeding. Respect for their position means that we pull over and submit to their questioning, etc. If this officer happens to have pulled me over falsely, my best course of action is to respectfully accept the ticket then speak with the people in authority over him (possibly in court) to address the problem. This is all while respecting the officer. If I didn't respect him, I'd do something like scream insults at him or punch him -- which would only make things worse for me. Anyway, I just thought this would be at worst a thread that promotes lots of discussion... :~ :-O John :D
IMHO, Respect is never given but taken. There's two levels for the same word. The first would be a synonym of civilities, a required condition for sociability. The second one has a notion of admiration. For example, I have big, big respect for Ellen MacArthur[^]: She speaks French! :cool::-D About your sample with the policeman, do you respect the policeman, the law, or the policeman authority?
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
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Mike Mullikin wrote: but good luck trying to get any of the serious anti-Bush and anti-US folk on CP to understand any of this You are just fanning the flames Mike with statements like that*. * Not saying I don't fan flames, I do, but don't try and hold yourself above "us" and then say something like that
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRoger Wright wrote: Using a feather is kinky; using the whole chicken is perverted!
Paul Watson wrote: You are just fanning the flames Mike with statements like that Who? Me? :-O Paul Watson wrote: don't try and hold yourself above "us" and then say something like that I didn't think I was holding myself above anyone. I certainly didn't intend to. I was merely trying to explain to Mr. Fisher that he was not going to win any argument using logic or reason with people who are blinded by emotion.* * I don't mean everybody who dislikes Bush or the US are blinded by anything. Most people have seemingly valid reasons for their opinions. On the other hand there are a few here at CP who hate because it's the trendy thing to do. Some of them are terribly misinformed and nearly all of the "blinded" non-Americans refuse to realize that their own government is just as guilty of wrongs as the US government only they do it behind closed doors. In general, the hypocracy here in the CP lounge/soapbox is astounding. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
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IMHO, Respect is never given but taken. There's two levels for the same word. The first would be a synonym of civilities, a required condition for sociability. The second one has a notion of admiration. For example, I have big, big respect for Ellen MacArthur[^]: She speaks French! :cool::-D About your sample with the policeman, do you respect the policeman, the law, or the policeman authority?
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
KaЯl wrote: About your sample with the policeman, do you respect the policeman, the law, or the policeman authority? I've always liked answering questions like this with a, "Yes." :-D But for some reason, I thing that's not quite the answer you're looking for. I respect the policeman for several reasons. * He's a human being -- deserves a certain level of respect. * He's my fellow countryman -- (unless it turns out that he's an undercover spy or something ;P) * He's doing a job that was designed to make life better for us. * He's in a position of some authority over me (because of the law which I respect). Does that answer your question a little better than "Yes"? ;P John :D
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Nice topic and excellent post... :) :| ...but good luck trying to get any of the serious anti-Bush and anti-US folk on CP to understand any of this. Their hatred runs deep and your logic means nothing to them. I'm afraid you are fighting a losing battle. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
Thanks for the support, Kill-joy. ;P:laugh: John :D
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Marc, I ask that you think about this thread (at least what I take to be the meaning in separating respect from agreement.) Now I am a conservative person by most people’s standards. That does not mean I respect all of our conservative presidents nor does it mean that I disrespect all of our liberal presidents. For example I did not agree with the general policies of Carter or Clinton. I respect Carter very highly and disrespect Clinton. Why? Carter was a man of high ideals and honesty and has generally lived by them. Clinton went on National TV several times and openly lied to me playing word games on what the legal interpretation of some words were vs what the clearly implied meaning was and he knew it. Like wise Nixon lied to the public about Watergate and earned our disrespect for it. "I will find a new sig someday."
Respect and agreement are two completely different things. You may agree or disagree with some of a persons opinions or actions, but this has nothing to do with whether you respect or disrespect the person as a whole. Also that kind of respect has nothing to do with the respect you show a person because of the position he has in a system that you respect. I can understand why Clinton lied in court: If you start to mess with a persons personal life you ask for such things to happen... Obviously lying in court (and on National TV, etc) is not a good thing, and I disagree with the fact that he did tose things. However, the man was a good president (imo, the best you've had these later times) and I liked his opinions, that is why I respect him as a person. GWB, on the other hand, might not have lied openly (even though I'm sure he has the potential) however I disagree with most of his opinions and policies, and his "saving the world from the axis of evil" speeches are hilarious yet scary; The he thinks he has to control the world while not giving a damn about other countries opinions... and ohh, I almost forgot about how he won that election (which imho is much worse than Clintons lying).. You guessed it, I have no respect for the man - just like most of the rest of the world outside of the US.. I wonder if you ppl sometimes think about why that's the case. (P.S. nothing personal :-D)
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
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Chris Losinger wrote: do you honestly expect him to listen to you, regardless of what names you may or may not have called him? I expect the probability of someone listing to me when I am polite and respectful to be thousands of times greater than that of someone calling them names. If I read your question right the answer would then be no because I may be someone calling him cheap names and then I would not expect to be listened to. "I will find a new sig someday."
...GWB doesn't even seem to listen to international political leaders who don't shares his opinions.
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
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KaЯl wrote: About your sample with the policeman, do you respect the policeman, the law, or the policeman authority? I've always liked answering questions like this with a, "Yes." :-D But for some reason, I thing that's not quite the answer you're looking for. I respect the policeman for several reasons. * He's a human being -- deserves a certain level of respect. * He's my fellow countryman -- (unless it turns out that he's an undercover spy or something ;P) * He's doing a job that was designed to make life better for us. * He's in a position of some authority over me (because of the law which I respect). Does that answer your question a little better than "Yes"? ;P John :D
so, yes, I must be crazy :-O John Fisher wrote: I've always liked answering questions like this with a, "Yes." I generally use "12" :-D John Fisher wrote: Does that answer your question a little better Euh, 12? Nah, obviously yes. As you stated, Respect is a global notion but has several aspects :)
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
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Respect and agreement are two completely different things. You may agree or disagree with some of a persons opinions or actions, but this has nothing to do with whether you respect or disrespect the person as a whole. Also that kind of respect has nothing to do with the respect you show a person because of the position he has in a system that you respect. I can understand why Clinton lied in court: If you start to mess with a persons personal life you ask for such things to happen... Obviously lying in court (and on National TV, etc) is not a good thing, and I disagree with the fact that he did tose things. However, the man was a good president (imo, the best you've had these later times) and I liked his opinions, that is why I respect him as a person. GWB, on the other hand, might not have lied openly (even though I'm sure he has the potential) however I disagree with most of his opinions and policies, and his "saving the world from the axis of evil" speeches are hilarious yet scary; The he thinks he has to control the world while not giving a damn about other countries opinions... and ohh, I almost forgot about how he won that election (which imho is much worse than Clintons lying).. You guessed it, I have no respect for the man - just like most of the rest of the world outside of the US.. I wonder if you ppl sometimes think about why that's the case. (P.S. nothing personal :-D)
Cheers,
Marc:beer: Click to see my *real* signature :beer:
Marc Richarme wrote: Respect and agreement are two completely different things. You may agree or disagree with some of a persons opinions or actions, but this has nothing to do with whether you respect or disrespect the person as a whole. Also that kind of respect has nothing to do with the respect you show a person because of the position he has in a system that you respect. We totally agree here. I just did not take your comments to be along those lines. And agreed nothing personal, we just value different issues at a different level. Marc Richarme wrote: I almost forgot about how he won that election (which imho is much worse than Clintons lying). That is fine that you have a different opinion here. My response is keep in mind that GWB had a high percentage of the vote then Clinton ever did and the US voting laws were followed. If you really want to see a corrupt election go study the 1960 election. "I will find a new sig someday."