Troll
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After reading most of the 3 mile long (4.83 Km) posts Re:Question:Language Barrier, I became a little unsure of the real meaning of the word troll. I decided to look it up just in case my understanding of the word was incorrect or not fully understood. http://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/270419/2.-Morrisey-Trolling.pdf[^] It would seem that my general understanding of the meaning of the word troll was correct, however, not fully understood.
"Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read." Frank Zappa 1980
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After reading most of the 3 mile long (4.83 Km) posts Re:Question:Language Barrier, I became a little unsure of the real meaning of the word troll. I decided to look it up just in case my understanding of the word was incorrect or not fully understood. http://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/270419/2.-Morrisey-Trolling.pdf[^] It would seem that my general understanding of the meaning of the word troll was correct, however, not fully understood.
"Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read." Frank Zappa 1980
Hi Grralph1, Here's a discussion of the history of the many complex meanings of "troll," as noun and verb, over time: [^] on one of my favorite etymology sites. Etymonline.com cites this early usage: "The first record of it is from a court document from the Shetlands, regarding a certain Catherine, who, among other things, was accused of "airt and pairt of witchcraft and sorcerie, in hanting and seeing the Trollis ryse out of the kyrk yeard of Hildiswick." ", and that is widely quoted on other web-sites, incorrectly, as an example of "troll" used as a verb ! At the same time, there's no mention on Etymonline.com of the very common folklore in which a troll lives under a bridge, and eats people. I heard that as a boy, before I could read, as my mother read/interpreted tales of many nations' legends, and myths, to me ... she was a scholar. And, my father used the word troll to refer to slow trawling of a fishing line, and slow-going in the boat. Only, it seems, on the internet, has "troll" lost its magic/magical-being connotations, and its other meanings (stroll/wander, style of fishing and using bait, a synonym for "cruising" for certain gay people), and become usually a pejorative label. Hypothesis: there's a range of negativity/condemnation in the way "troll" is used on the web: at best, it might used to describe someone showing-off, mouthing-off, posting way off-topic, seeking attention, etc., perhaps without conscious intent; second usage may be more an accusation that someone is trying to hi-jack, or derail, a thread deliberately, assaulting other people verbally, threatening, etc. You will note, imho, here on CP, as on many other forums, that people take on roles, personas, and a forum will have different levels of tolerance, and evaluation, of the content of their posts, as their personas come to "own" a certain style of "psychic territory" of discourse. This is only natural, in my opinion; it reflects the innate dynamics in human social groups, and the larger principle of the concentration of the social distribution of "justice." (ref. Moreno). That this phenomenon is "natural" doesn't mean, to me, that it's not something a group, hopefully, will strive against ... to put that more positively: a healthy group regulates the social distribution of justice by pro-social norms, equal tolerance, and proactive moderation; at its worst a pathological group fosters an often sadistic cadre
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Hi Grralph1, Here's a discussion of the history of the many complex meanings of "troll," as noun and verb, over time: [^] on one of my favorite etymology sites. Etymonline.com cites this early usage: "The first record of it is from a court document from the Shetlands, regarding a certain Catherine, who, among other things, was accused of "airt and pairt of witchcraft and sorcerie, in hanting and seeing the Trollis ryse out of the kyrk yeard of Hildiswick." ", and that is widely quoted on other web-sites, incorrectly, as an example of "troll" used as a verb ! At the same time, there's no mention on Etymonline.com of the very common folklore in which a troll lives under a bridge, and eats people. I heard that as a boy, before I could read, as my mother read/interpreted tales of many nations' legends, and myths, to me ... she was a scholar. And, my father used the word troll to refer to slow trawling of a fishing line, and slow-going in the boat. Only, it seems, on the internet, has "troll" lost its magic/magical-being connotations, and its other meanings (stroll/wander, style of fishing and using bait, a synonym for "cruising" for certain gay people), and become usually a pejorative label. Hypothesis: there's a range of negativity/condemnation in the way "troll" is used on the web: at best, it might used to describe someone showing-off, mouthing-off, posting way off-topic, seeking attention, etc., perhaps without conscious intent; second usage may be more an accusation that someone is trying to hi-jack, or derail, a thread deliberately, assaulting other people verbally, threatening, etc. You will note, imho, here on CP, as on many other forums, that people take on roles, personas, and a forum will have different levels of tolerance, and evaluation, of the content of their posts, as their personas come to "own" a certain style of "psychic territory" of discourse. This is only natural, in my opinion; it reflects the innate dynamics in human social groups, and the larger principle of the concentration of the social distribution of "justice." (ref. Moreno). That this phenomenon is "natural" doesn't mean, to me, that it's not something a group, hopefully, will strive against ... to put that more positively: a healthy group regulates the social distribution of justice by pro-social norms, equal tolerance, and proactive moderation; at its worst a pathological group fosters an often sadistic cadre
Bill, I, too, grew up with stories of Troll's under bridges - the story was Three Billy Goats Gruff. I remember a rather frightening picture of the green troll's face in the book we treasured - called something like "A Book of Children's Fairy Tales" - when children were called children not kids, who were small goats. The verb Trolling in fishing is where one or more lines are baited and dragged behind the boat. I believe this matches well with its internet usage of one who posts controversial posts (the bait) in order to catch, in this case, other posters. So, in general terms, an internet Troll is one who posts for no other reason than to catch others in their net (to mix marine metaphors) Had I been a little brighter, I might have written this somewhat abrasively, accusing you of spouting rubbish etc. purely to elicit a response and, thus, demonstrate Trolling at the same time as adding my explanation. But i am feeling particularly dim at the moment, so a sensible post will just have to do.
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Bill, I, too, grew up with stories of Troll's under bridges - the story was Three Billy Goats Gruff. I remember a rather frightening picture of the green troll's face in the book we treasured - called something like "A Book of Children's Fairy Tales" - when children were called children not kids, who were small goats. The verb Trolling in fishing is where one or more lines are baited and dragged behind the boat. I believe this matches well with its internet usage of one who posts controversial posts (the bait) in order to catch, in this case, other posters. So, in general terms, an internet Troll is one who posts for no other reason than to catch others in their net (to mix marine metaphors) Had I been a little brighter, I might have written this somewhat abrasively, accusing you of spouting rubbish etc. purely to elicit a response and, thus, demonstrate Trolling at the same time as adding my explanation. But i am feeling particularly dim at the moment, so a sensible post will just have to do.
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Where did you get a picture of Michelle from? :laugh:
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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Bill, I, too, grew up with stories of Troll's under bridges - the story was Three Billy Goats Gruff. I remember a rather frightening picture of the green troll's face in the book we treasured - called something like "A Book of Children's Fairy Tales" - when children were called children not kids, who were small goats. The verb Trolling in fishing is where one or more lines are baited and dragged behind the boat. I believe this matches well with its internet usage of one who posts controversial posts (the bait) in order to catch, in this case, other posters. So, in general terms, an internet Troll is one who posts for no other reason than to catch others in their net (to mix marine metaphors) Had I been a little brighter, I might have written this somewhat abrasively, accusing you of spouting rubbish etc. purely to elicit a response and, thus, demonstrate Trolling at the same time as adding my explanation. But i am feeling particularly dim at the moment, so a sensible post will just have to do.
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Upvoted ! A very illuminating, enjoyable, response, _Maxxx_, If the light of dimness is kindness, I can see ... by that :) yours, spontifically, Bill
“Human beings do not live in the objective world alone, nor alone in the world of social activity as ordinarily understood, but are very much at the mercy of the particular language which has become the medium of expression for their society. It is quite an illusion to imagine that one adjusts to reality essentially without the use of language and that language is merely an incidental means of solving specific problems of communication or reflection." Edward Sapir, 1929
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That is definitely one of my ex-wives, taken while she was waking up. Bill
“Human beings do not live in the objective world alone, nor alone in the world of social activity as ordinarily understood, but are very much at the mercy of the particular language which has become the medium of expression for their society. It is quite an illusion to imagine that one adjusts to reality essentially without the use of language and that language is merely an incidental means of solving specific problems of communication or reflection." Edward Sapir, 1929
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That is definitely one of my ex-wives, taken while she was waking up. Bill
“Human beings do not live in the objective world alone, nor alone in the world of social activity as ordinarily understood, but are very much at the mercy of the particular language which has become the medium of expression for their society. It is quite an illusion to imagine that one adjusts to reality essentially without the use of language and that language is merely an incidental means of solving specific problems of communication or reflection." Edward Sapir, 1929
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Hi Grralph1, Here's a discussion of the history of the many complex meanings of "troll," as noun and verb, over time: [^] on one of my favorite etymology sites. Etymonline.com cites this early usage: "The first record of it is from a court document from the Shetlands, regarding a certain Catherine, who, among other things, was accused of "airt and pairt of witchcraft and sorcerie, in hanting and seeing the Trollis ryse out of the kyrk yeard of Hildiswick." ", and that is widely quoted on other web-sites, incorrectly, as an example of "troll" used as a verb ! At the same time, there's no mention on Etymonline.com of the very common folklore in which a troll lives under a bridge, and eats people. I heard that as a boy, before I could read, as my mother read/interpreted tales of many nations' legends, and myths, to me ... she was a scholar. And, my father used the word troll to refer to slow trawling of a fishing line, and slow-going in the boat. Only, it seems, on the internet, has "troll" lost its magic/magical-being connotations, and its other meanings (stroll/wander, style of fishing and using bait, a synonym for "cruising" for certain gay people), and become usually a pejorative label. Hypothesis: there's a range of negativity/condemnation in the way "troll" is used on the web: at best, it might used to describe someone showing-off, mouthing-off, posting way off-topic, seeking attention, etc., perhaps without conscious intent; second usage may be more an accusation that someone is trying to hi-jack, or derail, a thread deliberately, assaulting other people verbally, threatening, etc. You will note, imho, here on CP, as on many other forums, that people take on roles, personas, and a forum will have different levels of tolerance, and evaluation, of the content of their posts, as their personas come to "own" a certain style of "psychic territory" of discourse. This is only natural, in my opinion; it reflects the innate dynamics in human social groups, and the larger principle of the concentration of the social distribution of "justice." (ref. Moreno). That this phenomenon is "natural" doesn't mean, to me, that it's not something a group, hopefully, will strive against ... to put that more positively: a healthy group regulates the social distribution of justice by pro-social norms, equal tolerance, and proactive moderation; at its worst a pathological group fosters an often sadistic cadre
Silly me, all these years I thought we were talking about scruffy little creatures that live under bridges and eat children... :-O
Will Rogers never met me.
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Hi Grralph1, Here's a discussion of the history of the many complex meanings of "troll," as noun and verb, over time: [^] on one of my favorite etymology sites. Etymonline.com cites this early usage: "The first record of it is from a court document from the Shetlands, regarding a certain Catherine, who, among other things, was accused of "airt and pairt of witchcraft and sorcerie, in hanting and seeing the Trollis ryse out of the kyrk yeard of Hildiswick." ", and that is widely quoted on other web-sites, incorrectly, as an example of "troll" used as a verb ! At the same time, there's no mention on Etymonline.com of the very common folklore in which a troll lives under a bridge, and eats people. I heard that as a boy, before I could read, as my mother read/interpreted tales of many nations' legends, and myths, to me ... she was a scholar. And, my father used the word troll to refer to slow trawling of a fishing line, and slow-going in the boat. Only, it seems, on the internet, has "troll" lost its magic/magical-being connotations, and its other meanings (stroll/wander, style of fishing and using bait, a synonym for "cruising" for certain gay people), and become usually a pejorative label. Hypothesis: there's a range of negativity/condemnation in the way "troll" is used on the web: at best, it might used to describe someone showing-off, mouthing-off, posting way off-topic, seeking attention, etc., perhaps without conscious intent; second usage may be more an accusation that someone is trying to hi-jack, or derail, a thread deliberately, assaulting other people verbally, threatening, etc. You will note, imho, here on CP, as on many other forums, that people take on roles, personas, and a forum will have different levels of tolerance, and evaluation, of the content of their posts, as their personas come to "own" a certain style of "psychic territory" of discourse. This is only natural, in my opinion; it reflects the innate dynamics in human social groups, and the larger principle of the concentration of the social distribution of "justice." (ref. Moreno). That this phenomenon is "natural" doesn't mean, to me, that it's not something a group, hopefully, will strive against ... to put that more positively: a healthy group regulates the social distribution of justice by pro-social norms, equal tolerance, and proactive moderation; at its worst a pathological group fosters an often sadistic cadre
