Oh mickeysoft! RT flopped too...
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I must admit... they look very neat... but I'm not sure I'm in the tablet market.
They're very well done. I use mine for most things I would have used a full PC for in the past -- email, web, light gaming, that sort of thing. The only thing I use my PC for now is running apps that don't run on Windows RT, app development, and heavier gaming like Dungeons & Dragons Online. When I went on vacation earlier in the summer, I left the laptop (my primary PC at the time) at home and only took my Surface. Didn't miss the laptop a bit while I was gone.
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True, but it has gotten old very quickly. I'm not a fan of Apple's stuff but I try not to come up with stupid names for them. I guess it's just something you have to outgrow.
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It's not the tablet. It's the absurdly stupid OS they loaded on it. Oh, and let's not forget the idiotic commercials they're running trying to push this thing.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
And why do you consider Windows RT "absurdly stupid"? Have you actually used it? As I said in another post, it enables me to have an extremely lightweight and convenient device that does most of what I would do on a PC. Now it doesn't do *everything* of course. But I doubt I'd be comfortable doing application development on a device this size anyway. When I preordered my Surface RT, I figured I would wind up buying a Surface Pro when they came out because I'd want the additional functionality of the "full" OS. But it didn't take long for me to realize that I didn't need it for an ultraportable device like this. As to the commercials, I didn't think they were idiotic -- they were fluffy and catchy, which is what you'd expect from an introductory commercial. And now we have the Surface vs. iPad commercials that have a bit more meat (not to mention more humor) to them. But of course, taste in commercials is very subjective. :)
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And why do you consider Windows RT "absurdly stupid"? Have you actually used it? As I said in another post, it enables me to have an extremely lightweight and convenient device that does most of what I would do on a PC. Now it doesn't do *everything* of course. But I doubt I'd be comfortable doing application development on a device this size anyway. When I preordered my Surface RT, I figured I would wind up buying a Surface Pro when they came out because I'd want the additional functionality of the "full" OS. But it didn't take long for me to realize that I didn't need it for an ultraportable device like this. As to the commercials, I didn't think they were idiotic -- they were fluffy and catchy, which is what you'd expect from an introductory commercial. And now we have the Surface vs. iPad commercials that have a bit more meat (not to mention more humor) to them. But of course, taste in commercials is very subjective. :)
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but 900 million dollars in losses means many, many people disagree with you.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but 900 million dollars in losses means many, many people disagree with you.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Thanks for giving me permission to have my opinion! :laugh: It simply means many, many people haven't tried it. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the OS. Windows Phone hasn't exactly sold well (yet) either but it's a beautiful OS that works very well and has some phenomenal devices running it. I asked for your reasoning in calling Windows RT "idiotic" (something you didn't answer, by the way). I'm not arguing that a $900M loss is insignificant. That's a horrific number, no question. It's sad since the Surface RT is a better value than the iPad at the same price point but Apple hasn't had any trouble moving iPads.
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Thanks for giving me permission to have my opinion! :laugh: It simply means many, many people haven't tried it. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the OS. Windows Phone hasn't exactly sold well (yet) either but it's a beautiful OS that works very well and has some phenomenal devices running it. I asked for your reasoning in calling Windows RT "idiotic" (something you didn't answer, by the way). I'm not arguing that a $900M loss is insignificant. That's a horrific number, no question. It's sad since the Surface RT is a better value than the iPad at the same price point but Apple hasn't had any trouble moving iPads.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
Thanks for giving me permission to have my opinion!
It wasn't permission, rather acknowledgement.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
It simply means many, many people haven't tried it.
Agreed. That's because most people have done the research and don't like Windows 8, so they don't want a tablet with that crappy OS on it.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
It simply means many, many people haven't tried it. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the OS. Windows Phone hasn't exactly sold well (yet) either but it's a beautiful OS that works very well and has some phenomenal devices running it.
I have Windows phone, and I don't have any problem with the tiled approach on the phone. Using that same look in Windows, and VS 2012, and other apps & devives is terrible. I utterly HATE the look of VS2012. Flat black & white, all square. And most people I've talked to agree. It's too blah! From a technical standpoint Win u8 is WAY too restrictive. There's so much you CAN'T do that it make is nearly impossible to work with, other than in a cloud environment.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
I asked for your reasoning in calling Windows RT "idiotic"
I worked at Sony when it first came out. OEM's typically get first crack at new OS's & such. I can't remember anyone there at any level who didn't dislike it. And like I said, from a simple asthetic standpoint... who designed this?? A room full of children? I have contracts with 6 companies, and none of them will make the change to Win 8. Win Server 2012 maybe, but not Win 8 - WAY too unproductive. It's clear MS learned NOTHING from the Vista fiasco.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Marc A. Brown wrote:
Thanks for giving me permission to have my opinion!
It wasn't permission, rather acknowledgement.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
It simply means many, many people haven't tried it.
Agreed. That's because most people have done the research and don't like Windows 8, so they don't want a tablet with that crappy OS on it.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
It simply means many, many people haven't tried it. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the OS. Windows Phone hasn't exactly sold well (yet) either but it's a beautiful OS that works very well and has some phenomenal devices running it.
I have Windows phone, and I don't have any problem with the tiled approach on the phone. Using that same look in Windows, and VS 2012, and other apps & devives is terrible. I utterly HATE the look of VS2012. Flat black & white, all square. And most people I've talked to agree. It's too blah! From a technical standpoint Win u8 is WAY too restrictive. There's so much you CAN'T do that it make is nearly impossible to work with, other than in a cloud environment.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
I asked for your reasoning in calling Windows RT "idiotic"
I worked at Sony when it first came out. OEM's typically get first crack at new OS's & such. I can't remember anyone there at any level who didn't dislike it. And like I said, from a simple asthetic standpoint... who designed this?? A room full of children? I have contracts with 6 companies, and none of them will make the change to Win 8. Win Server 2012 maybe, but not Win 8 - WAY too unproductive. It's clear MS learned NOTHING from the Vista fiasco.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Kevin Marois wrote:
It wasn't permission, rather acknowledgement.
Did I forget the smiley? If so, sorry. That was intended to be a joke. For the average consumer, Win8 is something you have to try. Literally all of the folks I know personally who have actually used Win8 have liked it. Now that doesn't include folks like you who I only know on the internet, just to be clear. And the number isn't very high yet, but it'll grow as time goes on. And when you include the number of people I've shown my Surface to, the people saying "wow" and other positive comments grows and the negatives stay at zero. Again, this is my experience and doesn't include people I don't know personally (face-to-face). I presume you're talking about the Metro/Modern/whatever we're calling it these days interface and development paradigm when you say that Win8 is too restrictive. I'll give you that, at least so far. I'm doing Win8 Metro development (as an indie dev) and would like to see more local data storage options since I'm not ready to get into creating cloud services as a back end (yet). That said, for LOB apps (my day job) that seems to be the way things are moving (cloud services, that is). Working in government as I do means that the move is slower, but it is still happening. As to aesthetics, that's subjective. I happen to love the Modern UI. I agree about VS2012. I think they removed too much color. I haven't had the chance to look at VS2013 yet, so I don't know if they've improved that at all. I don't think you give MS enough credit. I think they knew that there was going to be some tough sledding with Windows 8, no matter what their PR department may say. But I think they saw that they had to make a big change and went ahead and did it. By the time we get to Windows 9, people (your average consumers, that is) will be used to the changes and, like Windows 7, will be accepting and approving of the change. Awesome chat, by the way!
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Quote:
Don't know why but all my grudge is against Microsoft
Are you a developer using Microsoft products? If so, they pay your salary so I would be grateful for them. :)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
No.
Beauty cannot be defined by abscissas and ordinates; neither are circles and ellipses created by their geometrical formulas. Carl von Clausewitz Source
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Amitosh S.M. wrote:
Don't know why but all my grudge is against Microsoft...:confused:
May be because, every now and then a Microsoft product becomes a nightmare for me.:~Then why do you keep using and even paying for those products? Well, probably because the boss decided to put his money on a safe bet. You might want to realign your expectations.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
paying for those products?
I feel that was my worst mistake ever
Beauty cannot be defined by abscissas and ordinates; neither are circles and ellipses created by their geometrical formulas. Carl von Clausewitz Source
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Amitosh S.M. wrote:
(which I feel is simply a PoS) Surface RT tablets
Have you actually *used* one? I've owned one since day one and have been *very* happy with it.
*Yes*. My brother owns one. He brought it for a craze and now it is lying, gathering dust. But, I love the Pro one.
Beauty cannot be defined by abscissas and ordinates; neither are circles and ellipses created by their geometrical formulas. Carl von Clausewitz Source
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Amitosh S.M. wrote:
(which I feel is simply a PoS)
Why do you feel that? For doing tablet like things both the pro and rt are quite nice.
Play my game Gravity: Android[^], Windows Phone 7[^]
Only speaking about the RT. Pro is nice.
Beauty cannot be defined by abscissas and ordinates; neither are circles and ellipses created by their geometrical formulas. Carl von Clausewitz Source
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I find myself amused with people who've convinced themselves that failure on the part of Microsoft is a good thing. Those of us who were around in the 80's and 90's remember what a headache it was to get things to work together - and many of us realize that the conformity that Microsoft brings is in large part why computers are so accessible today. A large fracturing of the eco-system would make most of our jobs a huge pain in the arse. If you think Apple could take Microsoft's spot right now you're mistaken. Your preferences don't matter to me - I only write this to point out that the nirvana in your head is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
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Seems like Microsoft is just blowing it this year. Maybe time for Gates to become CEO again like Jobs did for Apple.
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Seems like Microsoft is just blowing it this year. Maybe time for Gates to become CEO again like Jobs did for Apple.
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I find myself amused with people who've convinced themselves that failure on the part of Microsoft is a good thing. Those of us who were around in the 80's and 90's remember what a headache it was to get things to work together - and many of us realize that the conformity that Microsoft brings is in large part why computers are so accessible today. A large fracturing of the eco-system would make most of our jobs a huge pain in the arse. If you think Apple could take Microsoft's spot right now you're mistaken. Your preferences don't matter to me - I only write this to point out that the nirvana in your head is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
MehGerbil wrote:
If you think Apple could take Microsoft's spot right now you're mistaken.
No, I'll prefer Microsoft to Apple
MehGerbil wrote:
I only write this to point out that the nirvana in your head is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
I'll go to Gaya or Himalayas now
Beauty cannot be defined by abscissas and ordinates; neither are circles and ellipses created by their geometrical formulas. Carl von Clausewitz Source
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But it still made $20 billion profit overall...
Kevin
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Marc A. Brown wrote:
Thanks for giving me permission to have my opinion!
It wasn't permission, rather acknowledgement.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
It simply means many, many people haven't tried it.
Agreed. That's because most people have done the research and don't like Windows 8, so they don't want a tablet with that crappy OS on it.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
It simply means many, many people haven't tried it. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the OS. Windows Phone hasn't exactly sold well (yet) either but it's a beautiful OS that works very well and has some phenomenal devices running it.
I have Windows phone, and I don't have any problem with the tiled approach on the phone. Using that same look in Windows, and VS 2012, and other apps & devives is terrible. I utterly HATE the look of VS2012. Flat black & white, all square. And most people I've talked to agree. It's too blah! From a technical standpoint Win u8 is WAY too restrictive. There's so much you CAN'T do that it make is nearly impossible to work with, other than in a cloud environment.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
I asked for your reasoning in calling Windows RT "idiotic"
I worked at Sony when it first came out. OEM's typically get first crack at new OS's & such. I can't remember anyone there at any level who didn't dislike it. And like I said, from a simple asthetic standpoint... who designed this?? A room full of children? I have contracts with 6 companies, and none of them will make the change to Win 8. Win Server 2012 maybe, but not Win 8 - WAY too unproductive. It's clear MS learned NOTHING from the Vista fiasco.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
Kevin Marois wrote:
I utterly HATE the look of VS2012. Flat black & white, all square. And most people I've talked to agree. It's too blah!
Use one of the themes. If you're on Update 3 you can apply a VS 2010 blue theme. If not you can install the theme extension to get it and others besides.
Kevin