Egg or not?

Paul Riley

Okay, I'm not sure how international this is, so I'll just explain a little. There's a very common nursery rhyme that I'm pretty sure most of you will know. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall Humpty Dumpty had a great fall All the King's horses and all the kings men Couldn't put Humpty together again So what can we deduce from this rhyme? We know that Humpty sat on a wall, we also know that he had a great fall. We don't know whether the two events are related, but it does seem to be implied. We know that the cavalry tried and failed to put him back together. I'm not sure what the horses were trying to do without opposible thumbs, but whatever it was they didn't manage it. But where in here does it say that Humpty Dumpty was an egg? As far as I can remember, I've always simply known it. I know I'm not the only one because I'm reading Robert Rankin's "Hollow Chocolate Bunnies of the Apocolypse" and that has loads of eggy references related to Humpty. But why? I'm sure if I fell off a big enough wall, especially back in the days when the king had horses and men, that no one (least of all the horses with no opposible thumbs) would be able to put me together again. Now I may be a little over-weight, but I'm not even remotely egg-shaped. So again, from where did the idea that Humpty Dumpty was an egg come? Does anyone know? Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time

peterchen

Maybe because of this[^]? Virtually all HuDu pictures I've seen in my life have at least an egg shape. Even if you don't remember having seen one of the pictures before knowing HuDu is an egg, it's very likely you did. E.g. one of the books for toddlers. It's not necessary that the picture was associated with the name "Humpty Dumpty". The connection is made through the "fragile object sitting on a wall", and emphasized by the most common type of drawing, which is often used for medieval scenes (think kings and horses) OK, nice to see you. that's $40. ;)

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Anna Jayne Metcalfe

I can't tell you the answer, only that it's obvious it's Friday. :-D Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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Marc Clifton

http://www.candlelightstories.com/D001/HumptyDumpty.htm[^] OK, so that was is made up. Humpty Dumpty is a riddle-rhyme. An egg is a spiritual symbol for the human being, and the rhyme is a metaphor for the fall from grace. To a child with still deep connections to the spiritual world from whence they came, the rhyme is rich with moral meaning. :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka

Paul Riley

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: it's obvious it's Friday What DO you mean? ;P Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time

Paul Riley

peterchen wrote: Even if you don't remember having seen one of the pictures before knowing HuDu is an egg, it's very likely you did Sure, I understand that's how I know it. But how did those artists know it? Where did the idea originate? peterchen wrote: It's not necessary that the picture was associated with the name "Humpty Dumpty". The connection is made through the "fragile object sitting on a wall", and emphasized by the most common type of drawing, which is often used for medieval scenes (think kings and horses) Okay, you lost me now. Are you suggesting that people drew eggs on walls with horses and men in a medieval scenario for no reason whatsoever? They've never heard Humpty Dumpty, but they sit down and think "Okay, medieval theme, we'll have some horses, some soldiers on them, a nice wall back here, and what would a good medieval picture be without an egg? peterchen wrote: OK, nice to see you. that's $40. Trying to say something? ;P Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time

Paul Riley

Marc Clifton wrote: OK, so that was is made up. Made up maybe, but very funny. Unfortunately not as funny as your other explaination. :laugh::-D:laugh: Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time

Marc Clifton

Unfortunately not as funny as your other explaination. Glad you enjoyed it! :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka

KaRl

"Nursery rhymes are said Verses in my head Into my childhood they're spoofed Hidden violence revealed Darkness that seems real Look at the pages that cause all this evil"

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Paul Riley

So... you have evil verses in your head, Karl? You need to get that looked at. ;P No, seriously, nice quote. Korn, right? (sorry can't be bothered to do a backwards R; it's not essential is it?) Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time

KaRl

Paul Riley wrote: Korn, right? "Shoot and Ladders". Congrats :) no problem, Karl is my first name, KaЯl is just my CPian pseudonym

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Paul Riley

KaЯl wrote: Karl is my first name, KaЯl is just my CPian pseudonym :-D Yeah. But I used to work for a Rock music forum on Compuserve and I've seen Korn fans (admittedly about 12 years old) get very upset because we wrote Korn on the website instead of using a reversed R. Some people are so depressingly obsessive, it's scary. :) Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time

Anna Jayne Metcalfe

lol..just that it's the sort of thought I have on Fridays (usually the afternoons though!) ;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

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Paul Watson

Paul Riley wrote: Some people are so depressingly obsessive, it's scary So true. I was reading a post by this nut who was obsessed about finding out why Humpty Dumpty in the famous rhyme was an egg when... Oh wait... that was you! ;) Paul Riley wrote: I've seen Korn fans (admittedly about 12 years old) get very upset because we wrote Korn on the website instead of using a reversed R. It's .NET damnit! Not .Net! Yeeaarrgghh that drives me mad... :rolleyes:

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Roger Wright wrote: Using a feather is kinky; using the whole chicken is perverted!

Paul Riley

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: lol..just that it's the sort of thought I have on Fridays (usually the afternoons though!) Heh, I have these kind of thoughts all week long... especially when I'm reading Robert Rankin. He's even more insane than I am. Way funnier than Terry Pratchett and better at coming up with new ideas. Maybe not quite so funny as Douglas Adams but much more... well, alive. :) Just look at the list of titles here: Robert Rankin on Amazon[^] If I've read a third of these, I'll be surprised. I really must catch up a bit. I can highly recommend Armageddon The Musical[^] as a start point for anyone who hasn't read any Rankin. Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time

Paul Riley

Paul Watson wrote: So true. I was reading a post by this nut who was obsessed about finding out why Humpty Dumpty in the famous rhyme was an egg when... No way??? Nutcase! Paul Watson wrote: Oh wait... that was you! It was? Really? Daaamn! Must be REALLY pissed off with all the serious conversations I've been having around here lately :-D Paul Watson wrote: It's .NET damnit! Not .Net! Yeeaarrgghh that drives me mad... Hahaha! Indeed. :) [edit]Cobol too ;P[/edit] Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time

Paul Watson

Paul Riley wrote: So again, from where did the idea that Humpty Dumpty was an egg come? Does anyone know? I don't know, following are my thoughts on the matter. So refreshing, not one mention of W A R W I T H I R A Q O R B U S H T H E T E R R I B L E. The rhyme calls for a fragile object. Something that when dropped from a wall will break well. A person breaks, but they generally stay together when they hit the ground, they don't shatter into pieces. That leaves us with many, many things. Glass, a boulder, hard fruit and eggs. The thing though is that this a nursery rhyme. For kids. So we need something that kids can identify with. A boulder is ruled out and so is glass. What is glass to a kid? A man made of glass? Too complex. Hard fruit is just, well, who wants to go putting hard fruit back together? Broken fruit is good, easier to eat. So not that either. Eggs are universal too, chickens have spread throughout earth. Along with pigs and dogs, chickens are everywhere. Therefore so are eggs (unless some chickens come before themselves without the egg ever being there... That is Hinduism I think.) Also eggs are fun for kids. They love them. They paint them, eat them and throw them. They even have egg farms with animals painted on them (just ignore the fact that these eggs are normally boiled and so don't shatter very well... just ignore that ok? ta.) With all that kid emotion towards eggs already, it is easy to animate an egg. To make the kids care about some egg that fell off a wall. So the egg, is the obvious choice. If the original author of the rhyme had something else in mind, like a pomegranate, then he needs his wrists slapped because the egg is obvious. I could be mad though. :) BTW, my two questions about that nursery rhyme are: Why the hell was the stupid egg on the wall in the first place? Eggs can't climb walls! Chickens don't lay their eggs on walls... even in India they don't. And also, how did All the King's horses and all the kings men actually hear about this tragic event? Did they have spy sattelites, GPS and walkie talkies in those days? No, so did someone notice a bad smell on the other side of the wall ten days later and then casually mention it to a kings man... or horse?

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cap

KaRl

Paul Riley wrote: we wrote Korn on the website instead of using a reversed R :eek:! You did it again! Paul Riley wrote: Some people are so depressingly obsessive, it's scary Especially KoЯn fans :rolleyes:

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Paul Watson

Paul Riley wrote: especially when I'm reading Robert Rankin. He's even more insane than I am. Way funnier than Terry Pratchett and better at coming up with new ideas My book club is going through a Rankin craze, everyone is just raving about his books. I resisted last month, but am probably going to cave in this coming month.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Roger Wright wrote: Using a feather is kinky; using the whole chicken is perverted!

Paul Riley

Paul Watson wrote: So refreshing, not one mention of Stop right there. This is "Paul R refuses to say or even quote the 'W' word Friday" :-D Paul Watson wrote: The rhyme calls for a fragile object. Something that when dropped from a wall will break well. A person breaks, but they generally stay together when they hit the ground, they don't shatter into pieces. Who said they had to shatter into pieces? Did Steve Austin shatter into pieces? And yet they said they had the technology to "rebuild" him. Did anyone argue with that? Did anyone say "I'm sorry, he hasn't shattered into pieces, why do we need the technology to rebuild him? We just need to fix a few bones and then upgrade him a little."? Other than that... cool theory :) Paul Watson wrote: Why the hell was the stupid egg on the wall in the first place? And this was going to be MY argument! I've seen people sitting on walls loads of times. I've never seen an Egg sat on one, just twiddling his shell watching the world go by. Paul Watson wrote: And also, how did All the King's horses and all the kings men actually hear about this tragic event? I assume one was walking by at the time and posted it on news.allthekingshorses.net and news.allthekingsmen.net. Paul And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older
Shorter of breath, one day closer to death - Pink Floyd, Time