Interesting...
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Should Robot Cars Be Programmed To Kill You If It Will Save More Lives? [^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
Should Robot Cars Be Programmed To Kill You If It Will Save More Lives?
No. No AI bot should ever have the ability to judge the value life. How can it? It has no concept of it. To think people actually have to ask this question.
Jeremy Falcon
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mark merrens wrote:
Should Robot Cars Be Programmed To Kill You If It Will Save More Lives?
No. No AI bot should ever have the ability to judge the value life. How can it? It has no concept of it. To think people actually have to ask this question.
Jeremy Falcon
So, given that the bot is able to predict the outcome of the accident and knowing that only 2 rather than, say, 6 people will die it should not take that choice?
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
No AI bot should ever have the ability to judge the value life. How can it? It has no concept of it.
It is because it is acting without emotion that it can make this decision. It is you humans who are incapable of doing that. Oh...
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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So, given that the bot is able to predict the outcome of the accident and knowing that only 2 rather than, say, 6 people will die it should not take that choice?
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
No AI bot should ever have the ability to judge the value life. How can it? It has no concept of it.
It is because it is acting without emotion that it can make this decision. It is you humans who are incapable of doing that. Oh...
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
So, given that the bot is able to predict the outcome of the accident and knowing that only 2 rather than, say, 6 people will die it should not take that choice?
You cannot make a judgment call on that like it's a simple logical algorithm in a program. What if the person to die was your daughter, who's also pregnant, and her husband? And the people living were 6 old people that were murderers and on their way to kill more people? Oh sure, then we could have the cars cop a feel for pregnant chicks every time you start the car and require old people to sign a waver to kiss their arse good bye. But where does it stop, just how far down the "lets not have to think for ourselves" rabbit hole does one have to go? Just because technology says we can.
mark merrens wrote:
It is because it is acting without emotion that it can make this decision. It is you humans who are incapable of doing that.
Har har. Seriously though, emotion is what makes life worth living. It's what makes being human fun. Oh wait that's an emotion. I just want to be happy. Oh wait... damn emotions getting in the way. Einstein was right if this question even has to be asked.
Jeremy Falcon
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Should Robot Cars Be Programmed To Kill You If It Will Save More Lives? [^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
I think that's a fascinating scenario to think about, Mark. Consider the robot-in-the-car detects loss of consciousness in the driver somehow and is able to evaluate, given the flow of traffic, that any sudden stop will result in a multi-car pile-up with major loss of life while it is also able to conclude that a sudden sharp turn will take the vehicle off the roadway, but almost certainly kill the occupant. Medical personnel in war, given an overflow of casualties, make rapid decisions (triage) about who gets treatment priority based on intuitive mortality assessments as well as, of course, whatever medical stats they can get. It would be interesting, to me, to know to what extent the current state-of-the-art triage strategies in war and natural disasters are using computer programs to assist evaluation. Equally frightening is the idea of a "loyal" robot programmed to put the preservation of its owner above everyone/everything else. I observe that my mind associates the terms "loyal robot" with the typical spin-minions and henchmen/women of ... politicians. cheers, Bill
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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mark merrens wrote:
So, given that the bot is able to predict the outcome of the accident and knowing that only 2 rather than, say, 6 people will die it should not take that choice?
You cannot make a judgment call on that like it's a simple logical algorithm in a program. What if the person to die was your daughter, who's also pregnant, and her husband? And the people living were 6 old people that were murderers and on their way to kill more people? Oh sure, then we could have the cars cop a feel for pregnant chicks every time you start the car and require old people to sign a waver to kiss their arse good bye. But where does it stop, just how far down the "lets not have to think for ourselves" rabbit hole does one have to go? Just because technology says we can.
mark merrens wrote:
It is because it is acting without emotion that it can make this decision. It is you humans who are incapable of doing that.
Har har. Seriously though, emotion is what makes life worth living. It's what makes being human fun. Oh wait that's an emotion. I just want to be happy. Oh wait... damn emotions getting in the way. Einstein was right if this question even has to be asked.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
You cannot make a judgment call on that like it's a simple logical algorithm in a program.
I think that's exactly what you can do. The bot will not make judgments about the people only about the outcome. In any case, if all cars were guided by bots this is unlikely to happen other than by freak, unpredictable accident.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
You cannot make a judgment call on that like it's a simple logical algorithm in a program.
I think that's exactly what you can do. The bot will not make judgments about the people only about the outcome. In any case, if all cars were guided by bots this is unlikely to happen other than by freak, unpredictable accident.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
I think that's exactly what you can do. The bot will not make judgments about the people only about the outcome.
Yeah totally. Let's give robots the power of God. That shouldn't cause any problems. :rolleyes:
Jeremy Falcon
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Should Robot Cars Be Programmed To Kill You If It Will Save More Lives? [^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
I believe people die when their "time has come" and not at any other time. That's why people sometimes miraculously survive accidents where all odds seem to be against them. Like someone being disturbed by something on their way to catch a plane that crashes. Such "coincidences" have happened to myself a few times, and I've seen it happen to many others as well. So from that perspective, no matter what you do to manipulate the outcome of a situation it's pointless - unless it's meant to facilitate the enevitable outcome. It's not magic, just a question of probabilities in the total scheme of energetic processes which stretch beyond the level of plain physical probabilities. Mind over matter, if you like... :)
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
You cannot make a judgment call on that like it's a simple logical algorithm in a program.
I think that's exactly what you can do. The bot will not make judgments about the people only about the outcome. In any case, if all cars were guided by bots this is unlikely to happen other than by freak, unpredictable accident.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
In any case, if all cars were guided by bots this is unlikely to happen
Unless VB programmers are involved. Or, a mismatch between metric and US measurement systems. :)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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So, given that the bot is able to predict the outcome of the accident and knowing that only 2 rather than, say, 6 people will die it should not take that choice?
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
No AI bot should ever have the ability to judge the value life. How can it? It has no concept of it.
It is because it is acting without emotion that it can make this decision. It is you humans who are incapable of doing that. Oh...
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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I believe people die when their "time has come" and not at any other time. That's why people sometimes miraculously survive accidents where all odds seem to be against them. Like someone being disturbed by something on their way to catch a plane that crashes. Such "coincidences" have happened to myself a few times, and I've seen it happen to many others as well. So from that perspective, no matter what you do to manipulate the outcome of a situation it's pointless - unless it's meant to facilitate the enevitable outcome. It's not magic, just a question of probabilities in the total scheme of energetic processes which stretch beyond the level of plain physical probabilities. Mind over matter, if you like... :)
cosmogon wrote:
I believe people die when their "time has come" and not at any other time. That's why people sometimes miraculously survive accidents where all odds seem to be against them. Like someone being disturbed by something on their way to catch a plane that crashes. Such "coincidences" have happened to myself a few times, and I've seen it happen to many others as well.
What a load of drivel. If it were pre-ordained, then why would the pre-ordinance allow you to buy a plane ticket for a plane that is going to crash in the first place? And the other 237 people who do make the plane - their time was pre-ordained to be at exactly the same time? This sort of rot comes from the selective memory of humans; Miss a train because of traffic, and the train is bombed by the IRA (happened to me) - good dinner story. Miss a train and the train goes to its destination more or less on time - not really a good story at all.
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Should Robot Cars Be Programmed To Kill You If It Will Save More Lives? [^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
I think if the robotic choose to do so, the car maker won't sell much of these.... Commercial imperative trumps ethic! ;P
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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mark merrens wrote:
I think that's exactly what you can do. The bot will not make judgments about the people only about the outcome.
Yeah totally. Let's give robots the power of God. That shouldn't cause any problems. :rolleyes:
Jeremy Falcon
It's not the power of god, it's the power of reason and making logical judgments based on probability.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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I believe people die when their "time has come" and not at any other time. That's why people sometimes miraculously survive accidents where all odds seem to be against them. Like someone being disturbed by something on their way to catch a plane that crashes. Such "coincidences" have happened to myself a few times, and I've seen it happen to many others as well. So from that perspective, no matter what you do to manipulate the outcome of a situation it's pointless - unless it's meant to facilitate the enevitable outcome. It's not magic, just a question of probabilities in the total scheme of energetic processes which stretch beyond the level of plain physical probabilities. Mind over matter, if you like... :)
I don't think so. The universe is random. You die because your body wears out, you get killed or, like my grandpa, in his sleep. Unfortunately, his passengers on the bus weren't that lucky.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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mark merrens wrote:
In any case, if all cars were guided by bots this is unlikely to happen
Unless VB programmers are involved. Or, a mismatch between metric and US measurement systems. :)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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mark merrens wrote:
It is you humans
Aha! I knew it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Oops! My positronic pathways must have malfunctioned for a nano-second.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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I think if the robotic choose to do so, the car maker won't sell much of these.... Commercial imperative trumps ethic! ;P
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
I don't see why anyone would be upset about this unless they simply reacted without thinking. Firstly, if bots drove all cars only freak accidents would ever occur. Secondly, what is the difference between a bot deciding your fate and, well, fate? If you die you'll never know the difference and if you are the survivor you'll be extolling the virtues of robotic vehicles until you do die!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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Oops! My positronic pathways must have malfunctioned for a nano-second.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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It's not the power of god, it's the power of reason and making logical judgments based on probability.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
Yeah... go right on and believe that.
Jeremy Falcon
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I don't see why anyone would be upset about this unless they simply reacted without thinking. Firstly, if bots drove all cars only freak accidents would ever occur. Secondly, what is the difference between a bot deciding your fate and, well, fate? If you die you'll never know the difference and if you are the survivor you'll be extolling the virtues of robotic vehicles until you do die!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
mark merrens wrote:
I don't see why anyone would be upset about this unless they simply reacted without thinking.
Well you can be their beta tester. Have fun!
Jeremy Falcon
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Should Robot Cars Be Programmed To Kill You If It Will Save More Lives? [^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
I'd rather it spent its cycles slowing the car.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
