Ribbon Moan
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I don't have anything new to complain about, but the Office ribbon control is just pissing me off at the moment. I've tried to get used to it, but I only find it 'OK' when I don't actually have to use it. It tries to be both a menu and a toolbar, but fails at both. I haven't found a single use-case where it is easier to use than menus and toolbars. Obviously, I not looking at it as a newbie user, but as a computer professional, but does anyone actually like the thing, rather than just tolerating it? Specific points: * Being able to customize and add new toolbars and have all of those commands visible and available at once is a massive productivity boost that has disappeared. * Being forced to constantly flip between ribbon tabs. Even when you do (rarely) know where something is, it's usually on another tab. As of 2010 we can 'fix' this by customising to some extent, but it would be easier if I could just see everything at the same time (see above), without having to create my own interface! I assume this is OK for that class of user that used to use the mouse and menus for everything, but it doesn't like keyboardists or toolbar users much. * No way to logically consume functional content, without a proper menu. This is the old 'I can't find it' problem - but I could eventually locate anything through the hierarchical menus. I don't seem to be able to twig MS's system for ribbon organisation. Several times I have literally been unable to discover where a function was using the ribbon and had to Google it. And then you find that the function might not even be on the ribbon in the first place. * No proper translation for old add-in toolbars to the ribbon. This means that if an add-in isn't ribbon aware, I can't reorganise its functions on the ribbon, they are just dumped on the 'Add-Ins' tab and can't be moved. * At least for me, the combination of icons and text is not easy to consume in the jumbled ribbon. Icons on menus in a fixed location relative to text, easy to scan - multiple icon sizes with varying text locations - hard to scan. I can't be alone in this one? I always turn off text on toolbars, if it is possible, precisely because mixing menus with the top level of a toolbar doesn't quite work. So MS, what exactly is so good about it? I've seen some users say 'I like it', but I've never seen them expand as to why it is functionally better than what it replaced. Nothing new here! Move along! :mad::mad:
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I don't have anything new to complain about, but the Office ribbon control is just pissing me off at the moment. I've tried to get used to it, but I only find it 'OK' when I don't actually have to use it. It tries to be both a menu and a toolbar, but fails at both. I haven't found a single use-case where it is easier to use than menus and toolbars. Obviously, I not looking at it as a newbie user, but as a computer professional, but does anyone actually like the thing, rather than just tolerating it? Specific points: * Being able to customize and add new toolbars and have all of those commands visible and available at once is a massive productivity boost that has disappeared. * Being forced to constantly flip between ribbon tabs. Even when you do (rarely) know where something is, it's usually on another tab. As of 2010 we can 'fix' this by customising to some extent, but it would be easier if I could just see everything at the same time (see above), without having to create my own interface! I assume this is OK for that class of user that used to use the mouse and menus for everything, but it doesn't like keyboardists or toolbar users much. * No way to logically consume functional content, without a proper menu. This is the old 'I can't find it' problem - but I could eventually locate anything through the hierarchical menus. I don't seem to be able to twig MS's system for ribbon organisation. Several times I have literally been unable to discover where a function was using the ribbon and had to Google it. And then you find that the function might not even be on the ribbon in the first place. * No proper translation for old add-in toolbars to the ribbon. This means that if an add-in isn't ribbon aware, I can't reorganise its functions on the ribbon, they are just dumped on the 'Add-Ins' tab and can't be moved. * At least for me, the combination of icons and text is not easy to consume in the jumbled ribbon. Icons on menus in a fixed location relative to text, easy to scan - multiple icon sizes with varying text locations - hard to scan. I can't be alone in this one? I always turn off text on toolbars, if it is possible, precisely because mixing menus with the top level of a toolbar doesn't quite work. So MS, what exactly is so good about it? I've seen some users say 'I like it', but I've never seen them expand as to why it is functionally better than what it replaced. Nothing new here! Move along! :mad::mad:
I didn't quite understand your rant... I guess you are forced to used the Ribbon for developing a project which doesn't warrant it, is it? One thing you have to admit is that you can cram more command on a Ribbon that on a 1 level Menu! That's the crux of the argument! That plus you can have creative control people seldom dare put in a menu (like a color picker for example) This week I am working on a hybrid control, which drops Ribbon and menus! Might be on CodeProject soon! :laugh:
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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I didn't quite understand your rant... I guess you are forced to used the Ribbon for developing a project which doesn't warrant it, is it? One thing you have to admit is that you can cram more command on a Ribbon that on a 1 level Menu! That's the crux of the argument! That plus you can have creative control people seldom dare put in a menu (like a color picker for example) This week I am working on a hybrid control, which drops Ribbon and menus! Might be on CodeProject soon! :laugh:
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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I didn't quite understand your rant... I guess you are forced to used the Ribbon for developing a project which doesn't warrant it, is it? One thing you have to admit is that you can cram more command on a Ribbon that on a 1 level Menu! That's the crux of the argument! That plus you can have creative control people seldom dare put in a menu (like a color picker for example) This week I am working on a hybrid control, which drops Ribbon and menus! Might be on CodeProject soon! :laugh:
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
Super Lloyd wrote:
you can cram yam
in a can of spam?
Quad skating his way through the world since the early 80's... Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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Nope, just having to use it in Office (since we have to use it, corporately). Edit: But your point it partially my point - why would you put a colour picker on a menu? It belongs on a toolbar...
That's the problem, zillion of toolbar! They try to save space, Ribbon is mean to replace (toolbar + menu) combo If you were a 0 toolbar person then, obviously it eats space.. though you can collapse the ribbon (double click on it) the it become a very large horizontal menu, might be mouse intensive though. But the fact it's only 1 level own makes it easier for newbie to find commands!
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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Super Lloyd wrote:
you can cram yam
in a can of spam?
Quad skating his way through the world since the early 80's... Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
oops, little typo! :sigh:
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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That's the problem, zillion of toolbar! They try to save space, Ribbon is mean to replace (toolbar + menu) combo If you were a 0 toolbar person then, obviously it eats space.. though you can collapse the ribbon (double click on it) the it become a very large horizontal menu, might be mouse intensive though. But the fact it's only 1 level own makes it easier for newbie to find commands!
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
Yes there are potentially lots of toolbars, but you only show the ones you need, and it was quick and easy to drag buttons between them for that odd thing you only used occasionally. And I dispute the fact that being only one level helps - it only helps if what you want it immediately visible and you can visually parse the ribbon to find it (which I contend is much harder than reading a menu), otherwise there is no logical, systematic way of finding it, other than perhaps searching 'All commands' on the customise menu.
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Yes there are potentially lots of toolbars, but you only show the ones you need, and it was quick and easy to drag buttons between them for that odd thing you only used occasionally. And I dispute the fact that being only one level helps - it only helps if what you want it immediately visible and you can visually parse the ribbon to find it (which I contend is much harder than reading a menu), otherwise there is no logical, systematic way of finding it, other than perhaps searching 'All commands' on the customise menu.
Look might matter more than you think! For instance, though I did use and implement the ribbon since 2005 it left me somehow unsatisfied... :~ (though it did help reduce the clutter of tool windows, toolbars and menus in our app) But using Office 2013 at home (Word, Excel, OneNote) and the new metro-ish ribbon didn't even register in my awareness on any level, I just used it... until one day, recently, I thought to myself hey, this new Office2013 Ribbon is good! :laugh:
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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I don't have anything new to complain about, but the Office ribbon control is just pissing me off at the moment. I've tried to get used to it, but I only find it 'OK' when I don't actually have to use it. It tries to be both a menu and a toolbar, but fails at both. I haven't found a single use-case where it is easier to use than menus and toolbars. Obviously, I not looking at it as a newbie user, but as a computer professional, but does anyone actually like the thing, rather than just tolerating it? Specific points: * Being able to customize and add new toolbars and have all of those commands visible and available at once is a massive productivity boost that has disappeared. * Being forced to constantly flip between ribbon tabs. Even when you do (rarely) know where something is, it's usually on another tab. As of 2010 we can 'fix' this by customising to some extent, but it would be easier if I could just see everything at the same time (see above), without having to create my own interface! I assume this is OK for that class of user that used to use the mouse and menus for everything, but it doesn't like keyboardists or toolbar users much. * No way to logically consume functional content, without a proper menu. This is the old 'I can't find it' problem - but I could eventually locate anything through the hierarchical menus. I don't seem to be able to twig MS's system for ribbon organisation. Several times I have literally been unable to discover where a function was using the ribbon and had to Google it. And then you find that the function might not even be on the ribbon in the first place. * No proper translation for old add-in toolbars to the ribbon. This means that if an add-in isn't ribbon aware, I can't reorganise its functions on the ribbon, they are just dumped on the 'Add-Ins' tab and can't be moved. * At least for me, the combination of icons and text is not easy to consume in the jumbled ribbon. Icons on menus in a fixed location relative to text, easy to scan - multiple icon sizes with varying text locations - hard to scan. I can't be alone in this one? I always turn off text on toolbars, if it is possible, precisely because mixing menus with the top level of a toolbar doesn't quite work. So MS, what exactly is so good about it? I've seen some users say 'I like it', but I've never seen them expand as to why it is functionally better than what it replaced. Nothing new here! Move along! :mad::mad:
Amen
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I don't have anything new to complain about, but the Office ribbon control is just pissing me off at the moment. I've tried to get used to it, but I only find it 'OK' when I don't actually have to use it. It tries to be both a menu and a toolbar, but fails at both. I haven't found a single use-case where it is easier to use than menus and toolbars. Obviously, I not looking at it as a newbie user, but as a computer professional, but does anyone actually like the thing, rather than just tolerating it? Specific points: * Being able to customize and add new toolbars and have all of those commands visible and available at once is a massive productivity boost that has disappeared. * Being forced to constantly flip between ribbon tabs. Even when you do (rarely) know where something is, it's usually on another tab. As of 2010 we can 'fix' this by customising to some extent, but it would be easier if I could just see everything at the same time (see above), without having to create my own interface! I assume this is OK for that class of user that used to use the mouse and menus for everything, but it doesn't like keyboardists or toolbar users much. * No way to logically consume functional content, without a proper menu. This is the old 'I can't find it' problem - but I could eventually locate anything through the hierarchical menus. I don't seem to be able to twig MS's system for ribbon organisation. Several times I have literally been unable to discover where a function was using the ribbon and had to Google it. And then you find that the function might not even be on the ribbon in the first place. * No proper translation for old add-in toolbars to the ribbon. This means that if an add-in isn't ribbon aware, I can't reorganise its functions on the ribbon, they are just dumped on the 'Add-Ins' tab and can't be moved. * At least for me, the combination of icons and text is not easy to consume in the jumbled ribbon. Icons on menus in a fixed location relative to text, easy to scan - multiple icon sizes with varying text locations - hard to scan. I can't be alone in this one? I always turn off text on toolbars, if it is possible, precisely because mixing menus with the top level of a toolbar doesn't quite work. So MS, what exactly is so good about it? I've seen some users say 'I like it', but I've never seen them expand as to why it is functionally better than what it replaced. Nothing new here! Move along! :mad::mad:
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I don't have anything new to complain about, but the Office ribbon control is just pissing me off at the moment. I've tried to get used to it, but I only find it 'OK' when I don't actually have to use it. It tries to be both a menu and a toolbar, but fails at both. I haven't found a single use-case where it is easier to use than menus and toolbars. Obviously, I not looking at it as a newbie user, but as a computer professional, but does anyone actually like the thing, rather than just tolerating it? Specific points: * Being able to customize and add new toolbars and have all of those commands visible and available at once is a massive productivity boost that has disappeared. * Being forced to constantly flip between ribbon tabs. Even when you do (rarely) know where something is, it's usually on another tab. As of 2010 we can 'fix' this by customising to some extent, but it would be easier if I could just see everything at the same time (see above), without having to create my own interface! I assume this is OK for that class of user that used to use the mouse and menus for everything, but it doesn't like keyboardists or toolbar users much. * No way to logically consume functional content, without a proper menu. This is the old 'I can't find it' problem - but I could eventually locate anything through the hierarchical menus. I don't seem to be able to twig MS's system for ribbon organisation. Several times I have literally been unable to discover where a function was using the ribbon and had to Google it. And then you find that the function might not even be on the ribbon in the first place. * No proper translation for old add-in toolbars to the ribbon. This means that if an add-in isn't ribbon aware, I can't reorganise its functions on the ribbon, they are just dumped on the 'Add-Ins' tab and can't be moved. * At least for me, the combination of icons and text is not easy to consume in the jumbled ribbon. Icons on menus in a fixed location relative to text, easy to scan - multiple icon sizes with varying text locations - hard to scan. I can't be alone in this one? I always turn off text on toolbars, if it is possible, precisely because mixing menus with the top level of a toolbar doesn't quite work. So MS, what exactly is so good about it? I've seen some users say 'I like it', but I've never seen them expand as to why it is functionally better than what it replaced. Nothing new here! Move along! :mad::mad:
And it consumes so much screen real estate. (Yes, I know you can shrink it, but it's not obvious) I find it harder to use, slower to locate infrequently used commands, and less intuitive. I suspect it was designed for morons: by morons marketing executives. It is a coincidence that VS still doesn't have a ribbon? I don't think so...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
