Employment Contract 'Inventions' clause
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
Are you going to work for the NSA?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I haven't, and will be discussing it with their legal peoples on Monday.
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
A lot of employment contracts contain unenforceable clauses: Herself works for an old-folks home and her contract says she can't talk to any media about anything that occurs while she is employed, even if it is nothing to do with the home, the company, or she has left their employ. I suspect it's to frighten the employees - they threatened to sack one girl for describing them as "money-grabbing *rs*h*l*s" on her farcebook page.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
Anthony Mushrow wrote:
which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company.
That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far.No, that is nonsense. It is only the companies property if it was done during work-hours, using company-resources. There's no way to claim anything beyond that.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
It's sad to see those type of clauses still in existence. Unfortunately, even though not often pursued, if, even after you leave the company, it is discovered that something you invented during your employment, and which is now making you millions of dollars, they can potentially go after you, the main result being that lawyers get richer. On the other hand, you could have a lot of fun with this. Inundate their legal department with: 1. My wife and I are planning on creating a baby. Since this child will belong to the company, my lawyer will be contacting you to ensure that you provide food, clothing, shelter, education, etc. for the lifetime of the creation. 2. Invent a recipe a day and send it to the legal department as "compliance with the contract." 3. Collect your feces (it is something you create after all) and send it (yes again) to the legal department. You get the idea. Marc
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
Yeah that's all standard crap they put in every contract. Almost all of it is completely unenforceable.
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Dave Kreskowiak -
Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
Yeah, what Eddy said -- usually it's only if using company resources, on company property, on company time. Where I am now, after one of our contractors left we discovered that he had been using his company laptop to develop a website for another client -- it's ours now.
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
I know a case when a contact had a part that was not enforceable (IMHO yours too) and the court dismissed all the contract because of it. But! I think you should not sign something that you do not mean to keep! So better go and settle it or move on!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
If there's any way to "see" this episode, do. Self-explanatory. "The Unit" (action drama TV show aired 2007 February 6th) "Sub-Conscious" (episode 27 of 70 ...) Or you might pick up: Martin Heideggar's "Being and Time" ... a little light reading for your next vacation. :suss:
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
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It's sad to see those type of clauses still in existence. Unfortunately, even though not often pursued, if, even after you leave the company, it is discovered that something you invented during your employment, and which is now making you millions of dollars, they can potentially go after you, the main result being that lawyers get richer. On the other hand, you could have a lot of fun with this. Inundate their legal department with: 1. My wife and I are planning on creating a baby. Since this child will belong to the company, my lawyer will be contacting you to ensure that you provide food, clothing, shelter, education, etc. for the lifetime of the creation. 2. Invent a recipe a day and send it to the legal department as "compliance with the contract." 3. Collect your feces (it is something you create after all) and send it (yes again) to the legal department. You get the idea. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
3. Collect your feces (it is something you create after all) and send it (yes again) to the legal department.
Marc, how can I NOT upvote this! :-D /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
One of my friends had a contract like that, and he created an open source project that the company tried to take, as it was successful. The courts disagreed, and the CEO of the company, who didn't know about that clause (and was extremely against such things, and was also very tech savy) quickly fired a number of people who were behind that, as it violated company policy. This was some time ago (I can't remember the company name to save my life) but I later met the CEO, and found him to be quite nice. He had a number of code style rules, all of which lead to some very maintainable code. The company also has a number of open source utility libraries, all of which are fully documented with numerous examples. Most were in C/C++, so I didn't use them, but I did look at them. If I find (and remember) the company name I will post a link. Don't bet on it though. My memory is like RAM, it gets cleared a lot. (grumbles about that issue...)
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question? --- The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
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I know a case when a contact had a part that was not enforceable (IMHO yours too) and the court dismissed all the contract because of it. But! I think you should not sign something that you do not mean to keep! So better go and settle it or move on!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
Any contract perused by any competent legal eagle will include a clause stating that any clause found not to be enforceable or not legal will be treated as being removed from the contract, allowing the remainder of the contract to stand.
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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Just had received the contract for a new job and was checking for this section, which I'm sure most of you will have seen, which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company. That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far. To summarise, any ideas, discoveries, innovations, code etc. that I create (even if 'not recorded in any medium') at any time even at home when not using any company resources, belong to the company. Also if I happen to make something that the company could use in my own time then I have to give them full written details on it. I also have to keep it confidential, so I can't tell anybody about anything I work on in my spare time. The agreement is specifically vague about what inventions are as well, as far as I can tell even if I drew a picture (it would be a very bad picture) or wrote a book (again, a very bad book) they could claim it. What I really want to know is how many people have actually signed this, and how could they ever hope to enforce it. It's ridiculous.
From a response on SO
Quote:
and pointed out to the owners of the company that by claiming ownership of anything i did on my own time, they would also bear responsibility for anything that i did on my own time. So if one of my hobby experiment virus programs ever happened to accidentally escape into the wild...they would be responsible.
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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Are you going to work for the NSA?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
Are you going to work for the NSA?
Nah, that contract's too weak for the NSA -- it's certainly weaker than the one they print in invisible ink on the back of birth certificates.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Anthony Mushrow wrote:
which basically states that anything you make belongs to the company.
That makes sense of course, but this one seems to go a little far.No, that is nonsense. It is only the companies property if it was done during work-hours, using company-resources. There's no way to claim anything beyond that.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
That's not entirely true. If you invent something based on knowledge gained from working at the company (esp. if it's through company-paid training), they can claim intellectual copyright. But if you, for example, work for a company producing accountancy software, and you invent an "angry birds with a twist" game, they won't have a leg to stand on, and any clause that says otherwise is unenforceable (unless "the twist" is that it's an angry birds accountancy app).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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It's sad to see those type of clauses still in existence. Unfortunately, even though not often pursued, if, even after you leave the company, it is discovered that something you invented during your employment, and which is now making you millions of dollars, they can potentially go after you, the main result being that lawyers get richer. On the other hand, you could have a lot of fun with this. Inundate their legal department with: 1. My wife and I are planning on creating a baby. Since this child will belong to the company, my lawyer will be contacting you to ensure that you provide food, clothing, shelter, education, etc. for the lifetime of the creation. 2. Invent a recipe a day and send it to the legal department as "compliance with the contract." 3. Collect your feces (it is something you create after all) and send it (yes again) to the legal department. You get the idea. Marc
The fun part is that you could probably sue to enforce item 1. I wish I'd thought of it, years ago.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
