A discussion On What Constitutes Abuse And What Should Be Done About It
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Yes, that's exactly what I and others think, including you since you think PhilLenoirs sig is OK, yet you have asked Martin (the Australian I think he is) to moderate his language in the lounge. Clearly its a case of double standards aimed at people who criticise criticise Israel, as this CP member also attests: http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4986823/Re-Can-someone-upvote-this.aspx[^]
Munchies_Matt wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I and others think
It's certainly taken a long time to get here. So: Your sig is part of your signature. Include religion or politics in your sig and I consider it as including the content in your message. At that point I'll judge whether your trying to incite a conversation on religion or politics in a given forum and will take the appropriate action. This isn't up for debate. This is how I will run my forum. a) My discussion on language included a bunch of details you've conveniently elided. Swear words are obfuscated, most public newspapers are fine with posting obfuscated swear words, so from the point of view of propriety, I have no problem. b) Swear words are words. They aren't discussions on religion and politics that take over the Lounge and make it a place where the majority of developers no longer want to visit due to it being hijacked by those wanting to use it as a soapbox. That is the reason for the ban on religion and politics in the lounge. Two very different things.
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I and others think
It's certainly taken a long time to get here. So: Your sig is part of your signature. Include religion or politics in your sig and I consider it as including the content in your message. At that point I'll judge whether your trying to incite a conversation on religion or politics in a given forum and will take the appropriate action. This isn't up for debate. This is how I will run my forum. a) My discussion on language included a bunch of details you've conveniently elided. Swear words are obfuscated, most public newspapers are fine with posting obfuscated swear words, so from the point of view of propriety, I have no problem. b) Swear words are words. They aren't discussions on religion and politics that take over the Lounge and make it a place where the majority of developers no longer want to visit due to it being hijacked by those wanting to use it as a soapbox. That is the reason for the ban on religion and politics in the lounge. Two very different things.
And I have never discussed politics in the lounge, so you should be happy. :)
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Quote:
pretentious garbage
Oh, you mean something with more than 3 simple triad chords? The kind of thing a 10 year old could play? Gotcha, I'm right with you man, like Beethoven was only in it for the money and Bach was just a religious nut .. and Mozart: "A Little Night Music", "A Musical Joke" - what's up with that? And jazz, jazz, just a load of drugged up ponces, right? Hey who needs 3 chords, two power chords is enough for anyone? < / SatiricalRant> Now, as stated previously, I have some Punk in my collection, I also have quite a bit of Buddy Holly (also fresh and musically naïve). I was never a fan of Genesis, especially under Phil Collins' leadership. To say that Punk killed Progressive Rock is so wide of the mark. Why?: 1) It's not dead, 2) It's actually very difficult to define: Is Pink Floyd Progressive Rock, how about Led Zeppelin? (answer: it depends on your definition and who you ask) 3) Progressive Rock was not a fashion and, for the most part, was not aimed at being popular. How many top ten hits could be labelled prog rock? How many groups could really be called Progressive Rocks bands? Punk was not only a fashion, although it was fashionable and enjoyed (suffered from) being trendy. There were lots of hits and lots of bands. Popularity has never been a good measure of quality and there were plenty of low quality (and pretentious) punks. Matt, do you even know what a 2nd or a 4th chord is? How about a 9th (a lot of guitarists don't even really know and get it mixed up with a 2nd!). How about differences between a major key and it's relative minor? Can you answer "What is Dorian Mode" or "When is a good time to use an augmented chord?" If you can, then you know more about music than most and your comment was just trolling! :)
Zeppelin were finished before punk came along. I am talking about all that late 70s prog rock crap like emerson lake and palmer. God it was pretentious drivel. All I need to know about guitar is how to play Whole lot of Rosie b ACDC, or stairway to heaven. :) (Yes, I could tell you about dorian, phrigian, mixalodian and all that crap. But I am sure its only used by pretentious prog rock artists! :) )
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That's not the backroom.
True, but it's close.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Zeppelin were finished before punk came along. I am talking about all that late 70s prog rock crap like emerson lake and palmer. God it was pretentious drivel. All I need to know about guitar is how to play Whole lot of Rosie b ACDC, or stairway to heaven. :) (Yes, I could tell you about dorian, phrigian, mixalodian and all that crap. But I am sure its only used by pretentious prog rock artists! :) )
Certainly not by a punk band! ;p
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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But the community is clearly in favour of allowing my sig if you look at the responses in this thread. Anyway, I have changed it, since it was getting a bit old anyway (yes, I have had that sig for a long time).
I remember seeing the sig weeks ago, and thinking "beh" (which is Italian for "meh"). It obviously pissed off the people you wanted to piss off, but, unfortunately, their method of responding was unacceptable.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I agree. Look at this chap: http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4986659/Re-A-discussion-On-What-Constitutes-Abuse-And-What.aspx[^] See how he claims he has the right to express himself yet has decided others don't? With people like him around how can you expect fair play?
Munchies_Matt wrote:
See how he claims he has the right to express himself yet has decided others don't?
Everybody feels that way; it's part of the human condition. Grown-ups are aware of it and can deal with it, though. Don't you think that right now would be a good time to quit winding people up for a while? Don't push people into making decisions that everyone will regret.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Chris Maunder wrote:
The point is: we have rules we ask our members to abide by
And as others have pointed out many political posts go by unnoticed in the lounge and it is more the content of my sig that raised objection.
Chris Maunder wrote:
and you think you're above those rules
No I don't.
Chris Maunder wrote:
You are showing absolutely no desire to get this sorted out
I have already changed my sig even though the 'community' in the main didn't object to.
Chris Maunder wrote:
It's not about censorship. It's not about politics
It is about both actually. as others have suggested.
Chris Maunder wrote:
It's about you wanting to be right
I dont have to want to be right Chris, because I know I am right. :)
I repeat: Don't you think that now would be a good time to quit winding people up for a while? Your nose won't be happy, no matter how good a reason you think you have for cutting it off.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Certainly not by a punk band! ;p
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
Or even a good old British Rock band!
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I repeat: Don't you think that now would be a good time to quit winding people up for a while? Your nose won't be happy, no matter how good a reason you think you have for cutting it off.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Sorry, what was that you were saying? :)
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
Richard Deeming wrote:
On this site, your word is law.
And that is exactly the way to do it. Setting up processes/rules/laws to govern what may and may not be done introduces a never-ending stream of problems, because what is written can be intentionally misread and misrepresented -- and there are always plenty of people who just love misreading and misrepresenting stuff, to give themselves imaginary rights to treat others badly.
And there you go. Someone has decided to flag my above posting as abuse. The question we need to ask appears to be: Does CP need people who behave like that?
Mark_Wallace wrote:
Someone has decided to flag my above posting as abuse
Yeah, the same person responsible for mis-flagging a ton of messages. I'm adding code specifically for his enjoyment.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Sorry, what was that you were saying? :)
Just a link to another anti-Israel hate site. It is only the Jews - so who cares indeed.
Nick Polyak
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True, but it's close.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert EinsteinDamn, that hurts.
Gary Kirkham A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Or any politics for that matter
So this whole thing boils down to you taking the view that a signature is not part of a message or discussion. That what you include in your sig is essentially invisible, inviolate and not subject to posting guidelines. Was not me, guv'nor, 'twas my sig, the little rascal. Never know what he'll get up too next!
Chris Maunder wrote:
Was not me, guv'nor
LMAO! :laugh:
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
What sort of abuse, people name calling? :wtf:
Gratuitous deletion of questions and answers.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Mark_Wallace wrote:
Someone has decided to flag my above posting as abuse
Yeah, the same person responsible for mis-flagging a ton of messages. I'm adding code specifically for his enjoyment.
cheers Chris Maunder
I never get to work on code that would be that much fun to do.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I think his signature is like a bumper sticker - It's a way of sticking his point of view in someone's face that they can't do anything about it. Bumper stickers are allowed on private vehicles, but if you don't own the vehicle, you probably shouldn't put your own stickers on it. I say that he doesn't own this vehicle, and so should abide by the wishes of the owner - Code Project ownership and staff.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
I think your analogy shoots itself in the foot -- which is a shame, because I like it. If a message were a car, it would be owned by the poster; CP would be the road network.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Munchies_Matt wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what I and others think
It's certainly taken a long time to get here. So: Your sig is part of your signature. Include religion or politics in your sig and I consider it as including the content in your message. At that point I'll judge whether your trying to incite a conversation on religion or politics in a given forum and will take the appropriate action. This isn't up for debate. This is how I will run my forum. a) My discussion on language included a bunch of details you've conveniently elided. Swear words are obfuscated, most public newspapers are fine with posting obfuscated swear words, so from the point of view of propriety, I have no problem. b) Swear words are words. They aren't discussions on religion and politics that take over the Lounge and make it a place where the majority of developers no longer want to visit due to it being hijacked by those wanting to use it as a soapbox. That is the reason for the ban on religion and politics in the lounge. Two very different things.
This is starting to need a very big DON'T FEED THE TROLL Every time you have said something, he has tried to turn around your words. It is not worth, he is not going to change the way he answers in this "conversation". I have read the full thread so far and (for me) it can be resumed to:
do
{
if message.contains (respect)
play_the_card_of (it was not so bad)
else if message.contains (rules)
play_the_card_of (speech freedom)
else if message.contains (you are not getting the idea)
play_the_card_of (other people support me)
}
while (someone answers)--------------------- About the original question asking for opinions: I am one of the 99% who doesn't know who Matt is. I am one of the 90% who doesn't care who Matt says. For me signatures are a very tricky thema. To avoid all kind of "grey zones" boundaries to spam, abuse, bypassing guidelines and so on... I would just delete signatures or add a very simple and easy to understand rule for them... NO LINKS AT ALL, it doesn't matter if URL, a href, plain text or whatever format.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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The thing is, his signature isn't abusive. The topic however is a hot one and people will always think it's abusive if it doesn't automatically support their opinion. Setting different rules for each forum is the right choise. You either have to start having separate sigs for each forum, delete them entirely, or accept that if they're allowed in any one (Soapbox), they should be accepted for all. If his sig was in the Soapbox as a message, it would be a hot topic and marked as spam incorrectly. If his post or signature was actively condemning someone, then I agree it should be removed.
^This hits the nail on the head. Is having a link to a political article or petition in a sig the same thing as creating a post on a political topic? I don't think it's the same thing: unlike a post that will get read along with the rest of the thread, a link in a sig says nothing unless you click on it. Also, if it's OK to have the sig in the soapbox but not other forums, is there some kind of mechanism to allow the sig in one forum but not the others? Does there need to be? Is the fact that the sig is going to show up outside of the soapbox enough to ask for the sig to be removed entirely? If he was posting political statements in the wrong forums I'd see that as a clear-cut violation, but it's a bit different with sigs. Does he really need to have that in his sig? No, but does anyone need a sig anyway? If it's getting this messy, maybe they should just be done away with.
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Hey, what's wrong with prog rock. I'm not saying punk was bad, I have plenty of punk in my collection. Prog rock is still going too. Yes has just released a new album and Rush (not as big in the UK, but icons in Canada) a couple of years back. The Moody Blues toured recently .... Disco on the other hand. X| Ya young whippersnapper!
Disco is still around, they call it house music these days.
