National Values vs Young Refugees
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Consider a young family from a conflict region, consisting of a husband in his late teens, a wife in her early teens and two or three very young children, who washes up on our shores, in a figurative sense. Until they were displaced, the husband successfully supported his family. Because of the conflict in their homeland, the possibility of safely returning home are, at best, many years in the future. The father has very little education. The mother has never been to school. Neither can read, even in their native language. They do not speak English nor (for readers whose native language is other than English) the language of your country. They have no documentation of any kind - identity cards, marriage certificate, birth certificates, passports or anything else.
What do we do with them? How can we help them? What supports can we, or even, should we provide, as a society, to enable them to adapt to their "new normal"?
When one of my great-grandfathers arrived in New York, all he owned was a change of clothes and a coat. When my mother's parents arrived in New York, they brought two steamer trunks of possessions - but nothing more. They received zero in the way of services to help them. But the world was very different then: the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
It is not that way any more. Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community that provided this help. So how do we help these new arrivals?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
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Consider a young family from a conflict region, consisting of a husband in his late teens, a wife in her early teens and two or three very young children, who washes up on our shores, in a figurative sense. Until they were displaced, the husband successfully supported his family. Because of the conflict in their homeland, the possibility of safely returning home are, at best, many years in the future. The father has very little education. The mother has never been to school. Neither can read, even in their native language. They do not speak English nor (for readers whose native language is other than English) the language of your country. They have no documentation of any kind - identity cards, marriage certificate, birth certificates, passports or anything else.
What do we do with them? How can we help them? What supports can we, or even, should we provide, as a society, to enable them to adapt to their "new normal"?
When one of my great-grandfathers arrived in New York, all he owned was a change of clothes and a coat. When my mother's parents arrived in New York, they brought two steamer trunks of possessions - but nothing more. They received zero in the way of services to help them. But the world was very different then: the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
It is not that way any more. Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community that provided this help. So how do we help these new arrivals?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
I let this message through from the spam filter since it's not spam per definition. But it's political in nature and belongs in the soapbox.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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I let this message through from the spam filter since it's not spam per definition. But it's political in nature and belongs in the soapbox.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
I considered the soapbox, but too often all you see are rants. I was hoping for a serious discussion, as this is an issue that should transcend politics. (Of course, then there is the old Russian expression: "Everything is politics.")
Thank you for releasing it to the Lounge community.
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
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Consider a young family from a conflict region, consisting of a husband in his late teens, a wife in her early teens and two or three very young children, who washes up on our shores, in a figurative sense. Until they were displaced, the husband successfully supported his family. Because of the conflict in their homeland, the possibility of safely returning home are, at best, many years in the future. The father has very little education. The mother has never been to school. Neither can read, even in their native language. They do not speak English nor (for readers whose native language is other than English) the language of your country. They have no documentation of any kind - identity cards, marriage certificate, birth certificates, passports or anything else.
What do we do with them? How can we help them? What supports can we, or even, should we provide, as a society, to enable them to adapt to their "new normal"?
When one of my great-grandfathers arrived in New York, all he owned was a change of clothes and a coat. When my mother's parents arrived in New York, they brought two steamer trunks of possessions - but nothing more. They received zero in the way of services to help them. But the world was very different then: the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
It is not that way any more. Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community that provided this help. So how do we help these new arrivals?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
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Forgive the OT question, but did you know someone named Lou Solomon (ex Brooklyn Poly, around the time you graduated)? He lived in NYC. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Yeah, because there are so few people in NYC... :rolleyes:
Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Consider a young family from a conflict region, consisting of a husband in his late teens, a wife in her early teens and two or three very young children, who washes up on our shores, in a figurative sense. Until they were displaced, the husband successfully supported his family. Because of the conflict in their homeland, the possibility of safely returning home are, at best, many years in the future. The father has very little education. The mother has never been to school. Neither can read, even in their native language. They do not speak English nor (for readers whose native language is other than English) the language of your country. They have no documentation of any kind - identity cards, marriage certificate, birth certificates, passports or anything else.
What do we do with them? How can we help them? What supports can we, or even, should we provide, as a society, to enable them to adapt to their "new normal"?
When one of my great-grandfathers arrived in New York, all he owned was a change of clothes and a coat. When my mother's parents arrived in New York, they brought two steamer trunks of possessions - but nothing more. They received zero in the way of services to help them. But the world was very different then: the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
It is not that way any more. Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community that provided this help. So how do we help these new arrivals?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
In simplest terms, as fellow humans we should try to bring them back to self sufficiency. That, however, is in the absence of politics. Reflecting upon the current refugee situations, clearly an inspiration for the post, other thoughts come into play - which I will not address.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Consider a young family from a conflict region, consisting of a husband in his late teens, a wife in her early teens and two or three very young children, who washes up on our shores, in a figurative sense. Until they were displaced, the husband successfully supported his family. Because of the conflict in their homeland, the possibility of safely returning home are, at best, many years in the future. The father has very little education. The mother has never been to school. Neither can read, even in their native language. They do not speak English nor (for readers whose native language is other than English) the language of your country. They have no documentation of any kind - identity cards, marriage certificate, birth certificates, passports or anything else.
What do we do with them? How can we help them? What supports can we, or even, should we provide, as a society, to enable them to adapt to their "new normal"?
When one of my great-grandfathers arrived in New York, all he owned was a change of clothes and a coat. When my mother's parents arrived in New York, they brought two steamer trunks of possessions - but nothing more. They received zero in the way of services to help them. But the world was very different then: the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
It is not that way any more. Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community that provided this help. So how do we help these new arrivals?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
Unfortunately it's getting worse. Today is Super Tuesday. Give your vote. Raise your voice to the person who can help you. Rdgs, Step Gone.
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Consider a young family from a conflict region, consisting of a husband in his late teens, a wife in her early teens and two or three very young children, who washes up on our shores, in a figurative sense. Until they were displaced, the husband successfully supported his family. Because of the conflict in their homeland, the possibility of safely returning home are, at best, many years in the future. The father has very little education. The mother has never been to school. Neither can read, even in their native language. They do not speak English nor (for readers whose native language is other than English) the language of your country. They have no documentation of any kind - identity cards, marriage certificate, birth certificates, passports or anything else.
What do we do with them? How can we help them? What supports can we, or even, should we provide, as a society, to enable them to adapt to their "new normal"?
When one of my great-grandfathers arrived in New York, all he owned was a change of clothes and a coat. When my mother's parents arrived in New York, they brought two steamer trunks of possessions - but nothing more. They received zero in the way of services to help them. But the world was very different then: the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
It is not that way any more. Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community that provided this help. So how do we help these new arrivals?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
Jalapeno Bob wrote:
the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
Because they were upwardly mobile, and therefore able to help.
Jalapeno Bob wrote:
Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community
Because they are no longer upwardly mobile.
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Consider a young family from a conflict region, consisting of a husband in his late teens, a wife in her early teens and two or three very young children, who washes up on our shores, in a figurative sense. Until they were displaced, the husband successfully supported his family. Because of the conflict in their homeland, the possibility of safely returning home are, at best, many years in the future. The father has very little education. The mother has never been to school. Neither can read, even in their native language. They do not speak English nor (for readers whose native language is other than English) the language of your country. They have no documentation of any kind - identity cards, marriage certificate, birth certificates, passports or anything else.
What do we do with them? How can we help them? What supports can we, or even, should we provide, as a society, to enable them to adapt to their "new normal"?
When one of my great-grandfathers arrived in New York, all he owned was a change of clothes and a coat. When my mother's parents arrived in New York, they brought two steamer trunks of possessions - but nothing more. They received zero in the way of services to help them. But the world was very different then: the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
It is not that way any more. Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community that provided this help. So how do we help these new arrivals?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
This is a thought-provoking but difficult question to answer. The moral/humanist part of me answers that they are victims in all of this craziness and should be helped. The nationalist/patriotic part of me counters that with the argument is that refugees who feel the most alien in their host nations are more prone to radicalization which in turn can become 'home grown' terrorists (a belief arising from recent events and a lack of reputable statistics on refugee radicalization rates). The question then becomes one that cannot be answered without causing internal conflict. Not wanting to live with internal conflict gives rise to other alternatives such as sending them back or confining them to camps until they can be 'vetted' which is an exercise in futility since nobody can vet them if their home is in shambles. The right answer would be to let them in an help them to rebuild their lives but that is rarely a politically popular move for long (once again taking recent events into account).
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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Forgive the OT question, but did you know someone named Lou Solomon (ex Brooklyn Poly, around the time you graduated)? He lived in NYC. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
This has got to win this year's most obscure response to a Lounge post award! :-)
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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Yeah, because there are so few people in NYC... :rolleyes:
Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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This has got to win this year's most obscure response to a Lounge post award! :-)
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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Hence the "OT" disclaimer. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Well, you are still stuck with that award though. :-D
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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Well, you are still stuck with that award though. :-D
Regards, Nish
Website: www.voidnish.com Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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I considered the soapbox, but too often all you see are rants. I was hoping for a serious discussion, as this is an issue that should transcend politics. (Of course, then there is the old Russian expression: "Everything is politics.")
Thank you for releasing it to the Lounge community.
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
Jalapeno Bob wrote:
I considered the soapbox, but too often all you see are rants
That's politics for you. :)
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Consider a young family from a conflict region, consisting of a husband in his late teens, a wife in her early teens and two or three very young children, who washes up on our shores, in a figurative sense. Until they were displaced, the husband successfully supported his family. Because of the conflict in their homeland, the possibility of safely returning home are, at best, many years in the future. The father has very little education. The mother has never been to school. Neither can read, even in their native language. They do not speak English nor (for readers whose native language is other than English) the language of your country. They have no documentation of any kind - identity cards, marriage certificate, birth certificates, passports or anything else.
What do we do with them? How can we help them? What supports can we, or even, should we provide, as a society, to enable them to adapt to their "new normal"?
When one of my great-grandfathers arrived in New York, all he owned was a change of clothes and a coat. When my mother's parents arrived in New York, they brought two steamer trunks of possessions - but nothing more. They received zero in the way of services to help them. But the world was very different then: the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
It is not that way any more. Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community that provided this help. So how do we help these new arrivals?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
IMHO - Don't let them get too far away from their conflicted origin. This is where they know the language, know the customs, know the food, etc... That means: 0) Establish well run and well supplied refugee camps. 1) Solve the conflict that is the source of their problem ASAP. 2) Get them home ASAP. Only if it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to keep them local should they be travelling to the far corners of the world where they will be forced to learn EVERYTHING new.
There are two types of people in this world: those that pronounce GIF with a soft G, and those who do not deserve to speak words, ever.
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Unfortunately it's getting worse. Today is Super Tuesday. Give your vote. Raise your voice to the person who can help you. Rdgs, Step Gone.
By posting this to the Lounge instead of the soapbox, I was hoping to start a serious discussion started. Notice that I did not mention their country of origin, religion or native language. There are many places in the world they could be from. The key scramblers on this story are, for me, their age, lack of documentation, lack of education, and culture shock. Almost every civilized country has some sort of a welfare system that could provide for the basic necessities, once they learn how to access it. But welfare does not provide much assist with the other issues.
Also, I did not want to limit the discussion to those landing on American shores. Many other nations, especially in Europe and southeastern Asia, are receiving substantial, if not overwhelming, numbers of refugees from various nations.
We are programmers. We solve problems and provide the tools that allow our politicians (or in some countries, political class) to implement solutions to the pressing problems of the day. To do this, we need to understand and explore the problems and be proactive in our solutions. As an example of our short-sighted thinking in the past: check boxes on a form labeled "Race:" allowing for the choice of black, white, or asian. In our modern globally-interconnected world, we need to think outside of the narrow boxes imposed by history or our local culture.
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
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IMHO - Don't let them get too far away from their conflicted origin. This is where they know the language, know the customs, know the food, etc... That means: 0) Establish well run and well supplied refugee camps. 1) Solve the conflict that is the source of their problem ASAP. 2) Get them home ASAP. Only if it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to keep them local should they be travelling to the far corners of the world where they will be forced to learn EVERYTHING new.
There are two types of people in this world: those that pronounce GIF with a soft G, and those who do not deserve to speak words, ever.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Establish well run and well supplied refugee camps.
This is, and has long been, a failed policy. This has left us with peoples who have lived in refugee camps for generations. All their ties to their homeland have long been lost and destroyed. One only needs to look at the Palistinians, the Ethiopians, the Sudanese, .... You get the picture.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Solve the conflict that is the source of their problem ASAP.
Or, are you advocating that the United Nations, or some other international body, should send troops to reshape their homeland, by force, to create a place for them to return to?
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
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Jalapeno Bob wrote:
the ethnic communities in New York welcomed the newcomers, found them jobs and social assistance.
Because they were upwardly mobile, and therefore able to help.
Jalapeno Bob wrote:
Americans have lost the sense of ethnic community
Because they are no longer upwardly mobile.
Unless, by upwardly mobile, you mean that the parents desired that their children be more successful then themselves, you are quite wrong. All of my Grandparents and many of my aunts and uncles were refugees/immigrants. Mostly from eastern Europe, so they were made to feel quite unwelcome when they arrived (quotas, etc.). Not all could read/write but all of them learned English. None of the next generation went to college but did graduate High School and learn trades. All of the next generation had one thing in common: they spoke to their children in terms of "When you go to college" not "If you go to college". Their upward mobility was attitude. They escaped the ghetto. That was upward mobility. And it has not been closed: it's a wider door than every and certainly far wider then they (and other ethnic groups who weren't "the right kind of people" had. I'm in favor of giving help to those who will make good use of it. The current calamity, if you wish to so classify it (I do) as that it's made too easy to remain in the 'ghetto' - where you can speak your native tongue, likely watch TV in that language, take your drivers test in that language, and essentially never have a reason to leave and integrate. The doors aren't closed - the real problem is that the help is rarely geared to helping you get yourself up - but rather, a narcotic of contentment. Then, when opportunity isn't handed to you it's time to riot and more . . .
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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By posting this to the Lounge instead of the soapbox, I was hoping to start a serious discussion started. Notice that I did not mention their country of origin, religion or native language. There are many places in the world they could be from. The key scramblers on this story are, for me, their age, lack of documentation, lack of education, and culture shock. Almost every civilized country has some sort of a welfare system that could provide for the basic necessities, once they learn how to access it. But welfare does not provide much assist with the other issues.
Also, I did not want to limit the discussion to those landing on American shores. Many other nations, especially in Europe and southeastern Asia, are receiving substantial, if not overwhelming, numbers of refugees from various nations.
We are programmers. We solve problems and provide the tools that allow our politicians (or in some countries, political class) to implement solutions to the pressing problems of the day. To do this, we need to understand and explore the problems and be proactive in our solutions. As an example of our short-sighted thinking in the past: check boxes on a form labeled "Race:" allowing for the choice of black, white, or asian. In our modern globally-interconnected world, we need to think outside of the narrow boxes imposed by history or our local culture.
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
My dear, you're asking political questions not programming. That what the reply is for.
