Hello World...
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:-D I have decided to use a .pdf file for my app's help file. Does anyone else like or dislike doing this? I think it is very fast and effective. the only con I can think of is that the user must download and install Acrobat reader but who doesn't have that??;P <newly added> additional reading[^] </newly added> Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]Well, it seems that I’m the only one who is going to support your initiative on using pdf as help files. They are great to produce printable versions of the help. In my experience, a lot of customers prefer to print out the help documents (at least the basics) than working with the online version. Standard WinHelp/htmlHelp based systems really suck on this point. To be honest, now I’m offering two versions to my users: htmlhelp+pdf documents. What I’m doing is using DocToHelp which allows you to create your help documents using Word
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Anders Molin wrote: It just plain sucks compared to html-help. perhaps but compiling it sucks even more don't you think? Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]JoeSox wrote: Anders Molin wrote: It just plain sucks compared to html-help. perhaps but compiling it sucks even more don't you think? Nope. One gets the impression you have no interest in the end-user experience, only what is easier for you the developer. I hope this attitude doesn't carry through to the entire application. Like everyone else has said PDF sucks for on line help. Neville Franks, Author of ED for Windows. www.getsoft.com Make money with our new Affilate program
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mgama wrote: Scrolling is jerky and slow. I don't understand why. I haven't experienced this. Are these symptoms caused by older machines? System requirement and such? Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]I agree with mgama and Roger. They are slow to load and don't have good mouse wheel support. I don't think it is specific to old software or machines. I have a fairly new 2.4 Ghz P4 running Win2K. When I get ready to develop my next help system (next month), I will probably use html. The main reason is that the software is implemented on Windows and the MacOS. I want one help system to work on both, which would also lend itself to the pdf format. Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks
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Roger Wright wrote: I hate .pdf files. They are a PITA wherever I find them, and most help files are bad enough without the added aggravation. They're slow to load, behave erratically with wheelmouse drivers, and print badly on many printers. I took steps to solve these problems in my .pdf. I am using a think font. when the pdf is opened the bookmarks/contents is opened on the left. I have not experienced the wheelmouse problems, what version of Acrobat are you using?;) better yet, time to get a new mouse?:-D Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]All versions of Acrobat suffer the problem, and it doesn't matter what age or make of mouse. The contents pane is nice; what I like best is that I can close it.:-D Ancient man conquered his rivals with the jawbone of an ass; modern man uses the jawbone of a politician.
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Anders Molin wrote: It just plain sucks compared to html-help. perhaps but compiling it sucks even more don't you think? Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]JoeSox wrote: but compiling it sucks even more don't you think Maybe, and so what. Are you interested in making online help that's good to use for the users, or easy to make for you? Usability, ever heard about that? - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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mgama wrote: Scrolling is jerky and slow. I don't understand why. I haven't experienced this. Are these symptoms caused by older machines? System requirement and such? Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]JoeSox wrote: I don't understand why. I haven't experienced this. Are these symptoms caused by older machines? System requirement and such? A slow software is a slow software no matter what machine you have. Browsing the web is way faster than using pdf. I hate them. Specs: 2xPIII 800, 512Mb RAM, RIVA TNT2 32Mb. No the fastest machine in the world, but I used to read documents faster than on Acrobat Reader with my XT 4.77Mhz on DOS 3.1.
It's not the fall that kills you: it's the sudden stop - Down by Law, Jim Jamursch (1986)
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Anders Molin wrote: It just plain sucks compared to html-help. perhaps but compiling it sucks even more don't you think? Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]JoeSox wrote: perhaps but compiling it sucks even more don't you think? If complexity is a problem for you, give them a plain textfile named README or INSTALL, like they do on Linux. Without an extension, all caps, because it's easier to do this way.
It's not the fall that kills you: it's the sudden stop - Down by Law, Jim Jamursch (1986)
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Rama Krishna wrote: What is the problem in sticking with the standard - HTML help. I want it to be searchable. I want an index. This would mean I need to compile a .chm file what a bureaucratic process. Create the .htm files create the index, add the files blah, blah, blah!:mad: Adobe way... Create MS word document with Headers for your wanted bookmarks/index. when finished turn into .pdf walla!!:-D Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]JoeSox wrote: Adobe way... Yea, and then the user try to press F1.... X| - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Well, it seems that I’m the only one who is going to support your initiative on using pdf as help files. They are great to produce printable versions of the help. In my experience, a lot of customers prefer to print out the help documents (at least the basics) than working with the online version. Standard WinHelp/htmlHelp based systems really suck on this point. To be honest, now I’m offering two versions to my users: htmlhelp+pdf documents. What I’m doing is using DocToHelp which allows you to create your help documents using Word
Doc2Help is too expensive for me though. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
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:-D I have decided to use a .pdf file for my app's help file. Does anyone else like or dislike doing this? I think it is very fast and effective. the only con I can think of is that the user must download and install Acrobat reader but who doesn't have that??;P <newly added> additional reading[^] </newly added> Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]Unless you are creating a print manual, that is not a good idea. How could you ever create a context sensitive help with that kind of a framework? My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
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JoeSox wrote: perhaps but compiling it sucks even more don't you think? If complexity is a problem for you, give them a plain textfile named README or INSTALL, like they do on Linux. Without an extension, all caps, because it's easier to do this way.
It's not the fall that kills you: it's the sudden stop - Down by Law, Jim Jamursch (1986)
Daniel Turini wrote: If complexity is a problem for you it kind of is, and time too. It's just me, I have a hard time trying to find the time to program the main app. I don't have time to remember the three or four damn apps I need to use just to create the help .chm. Daniel Turini wrote: give them a plain textfile named README or INSTALL, That's a good solution, thanks. I think I will turn the Word document into html and use that, and have an option to use the pdf? ahh file size? well damn I don't know. I explain in an earlier post why I am so rushed. This year's version will DIFFENATLY be freeware. Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^] -
PDF files suck as help files Joe. Totally suck. If you dont want a chm file just put a group of crosslinked html files in the [app path]/helpfiles folder and spawn it on IE. That's far better than slow clumsy PDF files. Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nishant S wrote: That's far better than slow clumsy PDF files. I don't understand why people keep saying this:confused: I am not loading the pdf in IE, just in Acrobat Reader, waiting for the splash screen to load, is that it? Beleive me, if I had the time I would do html. but I don't:(( Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^] -
Well, it seems that I’m the only one who is going to support your initiative on using pdf as help files. They are great to produce printable versions of the help. In my experience, a lot of customers prefer to print out the help documents (at least the basics) than working with the online version. Standard WinHelp/htmlHelp based systems really suck on this point. To be honest, now I’m offering two versions to my users: htmlhelp+pdf documents. What I’m doing is using DocToHelp which allows you to create your help documents using Word
OCid wrote: To be honest, now I’m offering two versions to my users: htmlhelp+pdf documents. That makes sense, I was just thinking about that just before reading your post, but then I thought about my overall file size, but I guess it shouldn't really matter since many users have access to high speed. It's not like my install file is all that large anyway. Well truly I don't even know my full install filesize yet because I am trying to get everything else done before the 26th, yikes!!:-D I have an idea of what it will be though. OCid wrote: Well, it seems that I’m the only one who is going to support your initiative on using pdf as help files :jig::beer::java::rose: I knew some people would be against it, but come on, this is ridiculous:-D:-D Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^] -
Unless you are creating a print manual, that is not a good idea. How could you ever create a context sensitive help with that kind of a framework? My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
Thomas George wrote: How could you ever create a context sensitive help with that kind of a framework? yikes!! I don't have time for that. I am just a stand-alone, learning from scratch, hobby-developer/wanna-be pro.:-O :-D but I'm learning. My software is mainly developed for me. I just put it on the internet if anyone else wants to check it out. I try to do the best I can with what I know and try to learn. I will tell you one thing, sites like codeproject really help me out.:-D Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^] -
Thomas George wrote: How could you ever create a context sensitive help with that kind of a framework? yikes!! I don't have time for that. I am just a stand-alone, learning from scratch, hobby-developer/wanna-be pro.:-O :-D but I'm learning. My software is mainly developed for me. I just put it on the internet if anyone else wants to check it out. I try to do the best I can with what I know and try to learn. I will tell you one thing, sites like codeproject really help me out.:-D Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]Even the negative comments are meant to be helpful... Overall, the consensus here is that .pdf is a poor choice for help - that's free marketing assistance. I like the suggestion above of offering both options, but I'd suggest an alternative to resolve your schedule pressure. A well written text file is far preferable to a .pdf, and takes even less time to produce. Make your initial - freeware - release with a text help file. As an improvement and inducement to buy your for-profit release, include in it an improved help system. I would use a .chm help system for the online part, and add a 'printer friendly' .pdf version for hardcopy. Nobody will notice the slow loading and poor wheelmouse response while printing, and those who just want to browse the online help will appreciate the responsiveness of the .chm system. Ancient man conquered his rivals with the jawbone of an ass; modern man uses the jawbone of a politician.
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Even the negative comments are meant to be helpful... Overall, the consensus here is that .pdf is a poor choice for help - that's free marketing assistance. I like the suggestion above of offering both options, but I'd suggest an alternative to resolve your schedule pressure. A well written text file is far preferable to a .pdf, and takes even less time to produce. Make your initial - freeware - release with a text help file. As an improvement and inducement to buy your for-profit release, include in it an improved help system. I would use a .chm help system for the online part, and add a 'printer friendly' .pdf version for hardcopy. Nobody will notice the slow loading and poor wheelmouse response while printing, and those who just want to browse the online help will appreciate the responsiveness of the .chm system. Ancient man conquered his rivals with the jawbone of an ass; modern man uses the jawbone of a politician.
Roger Wright wrote: Even the negative comments are meant to be helpful definitely!:-D Roger Wright wrote: that's free marketing assistance. :omg:h goodie, I like free stuff;P good solutions, thanks. What is your wheelmouse BTW:confused::-D:laugh: <just added>as in model</just added> Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^] -
Roger Wright wrote: Even the negative comments are meant to be helpful definitely!:-D Roger Wright wrote: that's free marketing assistance. :omg:h goodie, I like free stuff;P good solutions, thanks. What is your wheelmouse BTW:confused::-D:laugh: <just added>as in model</just added> Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]JoeSox wrote: What is your wheelmouse BTW It's a Microsoft Wheelmouse 3.0. And it's attached to a relatively new P4 machine with 1 GB of RAM and 180 GB of disk, so I doubt that resources have anything to do with Acrobat's deficiencies.:-D Ancient man conquered his rivals with the jawbone of an ass; modern man uses the jawbone of a politician.
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JoeSox wrote: What is your wheelmouse BTW It's a Microsoft Wheelmouse 3.0. And it's attached to a relatively new P4 machine with 1 GB of RAM and 180 GB of disk, so I doubt that resources have anything to do with Acrobat's deficiencies.:-D Ancient man conquered his rivals with the jawbone of an ass; modern man uses the jawbone of a politician.
Roger Wright wrote: It's a Microsoft Wheelmouse 3.0. And it's attached to a relatively new P4 machine with 1 GB of RAM and 180 GB of disk, so I doubt that resources have anything to do with Acrobat's deficiencies. I didn't ask b/c of the Acrobat deficiencies:-D I just wanted a mental visual of your mouse[^]:-O:-D So, your's isn't optical or is it:~ I have been putting up with this [^]with my laptop X| X| X| No wheel, no opti, no good:rolleyes: I have an awesome one I just bought for work, only $10 too if I remember correctly, don't know the brand off-hand though...well I could PCAnywhere my pc and check the drivers, but that would be too geeky:~ :-D Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^] -
:-D I have decided to use a .pdf file for my app's help file. Does anyone else like or dislike doing this? I think it is very fast and effective. the only con I can think of is that the user must download and install Acrobat reader but who doesn't have that??;P <newly added> additional reading[^] </newly added> Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
USN Veteran 94-98[^]Bad Idea. Some more words: Terrible idea. Final words: PDF is great for documents you read through or documents which need to work on a large variety of systems (people who hate PDF you find think that the world revolves around Windows and that the only three Mac users are in Outer Mongolia.) For help systems, especially if the app is Windows bound, then the bog standard compiled help files work just fine.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMacbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.