The statue of Liberty

Doug Goulden

I don't think you can call us facists either, what we are doing is what we feel as necessary, we aren't trying to just impose our will for the sake of doing it. KaЯl wrote: Didn't they want first to send them there ? It was an acceptance some of them wouldn't go back. You misunderstand me, hell we didn't want to have to do this, it was a necessary evil at best. I think we need to do it, but I would rather we didn't have to. I do want us to see this through now that we are doing it. I think that your link shows that the people in SPain don't really know Americans. That or you don't know the people I know. I'm sort of getting to the point anymore where I'm glad that we have a wide ocean between us and most of the rest of the world, seems like people are very quick to gripe about the US because we are the big kid on the block. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: I don't think you can call us facists either, No, no yet. But US are getting closer. Doug Goulden wrote: I think that your link shows that the people in SPain don't really know Americans Probably true, as you don't probably really know Europeans. This links shows to you the consequences of the pre-war mediatic failure in the World opinion, Spain is far from being an exception. One year ago the US were cherish, they're now considered as the evil aggressors, risking the World stability without the World consent. Bush's spin doctors should be burned at stake, at least.

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: No, no yet. But US are getting closer I think you read to much liberal media. If you came to the States where I live you would see that the people here aren't even close to fascists. For that matter most of us don't even like the government. I love my country I distrust my government. But I have lived all over the States and I can tell you that you would be suprised how kind and compassionate Americans can be. We aren't all large city, in a hurry, rude, etc. like NY and Chicago. KaЯl wrote: Probably true, as you don't probably really know Europeans. This links shows to you the consequences of the pre-war mediatic failure in the World opinion, Spain is far from being an exception. One year ago the US were cherish, they're now considered as the evil aggressors, risking the World stability without the World consent. Bush's spin doctors should be burned at stake, at least You may be right, but to be honest, what does it matter what someone in Spain or France thinks? I don't mean to be rude, but the reality is that every country on the face of the Earth acts in its own self interests, it just seems the US is criticized for doing it. I don't hear people in an uproar about the Russians selling ilitary technology to Iraq, and you don't seem very bothered by Iraq's oil deals with France. So if the US acts out of its own self interests, assuming that it takes what it deems a moral approach, what is wrong with that? By moral approach I mean , either in self defense, or where the gain for the other parties is greater than the risk. In the case of Iraq you could say we are acting in our self defense, and that the people who are in Iraq will be better off after SH is removed. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: If you came to the States where I live you would see that the people here aren't even close to fascists The people probably not, but the government is something else. However, I believe your system is strong enough to avoid a dictatorship. And, for the moment, it could perhaps not be very safe for a French to travel to the US. Doug Goulden wrote: what does it matter what someone in Spain or France thinks Bingo. Doug Goulden wrote: where the gain for the other parties is greater than the risk This is a gamble, not a certitude, thousands of things could go wrong. It could get worse for everybody on this planet because of this war. But I don't worry, I already know French would be blamed for that too.

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: And, for the moment, it could perhaps not be very safe for a French to travel to the US. Nah our bark is worse than our bite, you just have to be in the MidWest Hey something for you to look at let me know what you think. Not a trick question.;) Found this while I was Googling http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/05/bowden.htm Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Surprinsingly, they didn't mention the connection between SH and the CIA in the 60's, after the installation of the Baath party at the head of the State by the same agency :) Everybody knows SH is a bloody bastard, and deserves the destiny he will face in few weeks, but is it really the point?

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

It seems that the author is saying that the US and UK will repeat the attrocities that he saw when he was a child. That and he seems afraid of the Kurds. I disagree that the US or UK are there to occupy Iraq. However, I agree that the concern over the Kurds, they and the Kurds in Turkey are going to be a big issue. However, from the reading I've done and some of the "talking heads" I've seen, the Kurds have managed since the '91 Gulf War to create a self autonomous state. Question is going to be will Iraq be able to avoid the same fragmentation that Yugoslavia experienced. Sadaam has managed to keep a lot of different factions fom fighting, when he is gone that will change. Its going to be interesting to see what happens and how we can work to stabilize the region. Hopefully, this will all work out OK. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: Its going to be interesting to see what happens and how we can work to stabilize the region That's IMO a problem. It will take years, and Iraqi won't support such an occupation, according to the article. Doug Goulden wrote: Hopefully, this will all work out OK. If you loose your gamble, who wins?

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

Doug Goulden

KaЯl wrote: and Iraqi won't support such an occupation Why do you insist that Iraq is going to be occupied? I see the US and UK being there in a big way for maybe 3 - 6 months after the war, to a lesser extent for 1 to 2 years, with the UN probably involved after that. Afghanistan is on its way to independence even know, don't even try to tell me the people there are worse off than they were under the Taliban..... KaЯl wrote: If you loose your gamble, who wins The US has to be committed to making this work, and to making real changes to its foreign policy. IMHO I think that we are ready to do that, I just hope that other nations are willing to help instead of criticize. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?

KaRl

Doug Goulden wrote: ? I see the US and UK being there in a big way for maybe 3 - 6 months after the war, to a lesser extent for 1 to 2 years, with the UN probably involved after that NATO troops are still in Bosnia, remember? A military presence will be needed for a while. Doug Goulden wrote: don't even try to tell me the people there are worse off than they were under the Taliban No, but they aren't in a better shape than before the soviet invasion, with warlords controling the country

Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop