Relative Numbers

brianwelsch

I agree. It's tragic that any innocent lives are lost, however, I actually see it as a positive sign of our world as it is today, that people get outraged at individual incidents with relatively low body counts. It's difficult to talk about it this way without sounding callous, but your point is taken. BW "We get general information and specific information, but none of the specific information talks about time, place or methods or means..." - Tom Ridge - US Secretary of Homeland Security

Lost User

WWII was fought over 5 years. The battle for Baghdad promises to be remniscent of a few days of that period in casualties, or worse. In regards to Geneva convention: What do you guys think of using depleted Uranium? I was reading that German troops in Kosova (during the war) was instructed not to go to any site where depleted unanium was used. Russia, at that point, claimed that since DU leaves the battle field as a contaminated area, it violates Geneva convention. Thomas My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Chris Austin

I have to say Bullshit! There is no scientific evidence that depleted uranium is hazardous to the enviroment....at least not radioactively. There may be some long term effects because it is such a heavy metal like lead poisoning, but it is not a unstable material. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton

Andrew McCarter

Chris Austin wrote: There is no scientific evidence that depleted uranium is hazardous to the enviroment....at least not radioactively. I don't know if that' so easy to say Chris. http://www.ngwrc.org/Dulink/du_link.htm[^] http://www.antenna.nl/wise/uranium/pdf/durepe.pdf[^] http://www.antenna.nl/wise/uranium/edum.html[^] http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/antiwar/depleted.htm[^] There are many more articles. I'm NOT debating the extent to which DU is a hazard - just pointing out that there is a considerable degree of scientific evidence to prove that it is a health and environmental hazard steming from it's radioactive element.

Chris Austin

I'd question the scientific quality of these data sources and the veracity of their claims. I worked with the stuff first hand during an internship at Northwestern Labs in Washington state when I was a Physics grad student. All of the data I collected over a 4 month period pointed to no measurable radioactivity greater than background radiation. As a little background, in Washington state where I worked, there was a lot of underground nuclear testing prior to VJ Day and during some of the cold war. After one summer there I decided I would never go back, people seem to come down with some odd ailments. That aside, I do think the stuff will be bad because it is so heavy, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is linked to diseases 20 years from now. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton

Nitron

Chris Austin wrote: All of the data I collected over a 4 month period pointed to no measurable radioactivity greater than background radiation. What happens when you put it in the microwave? :rolleyes: - Nitron

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Chris Austin

"Big Bada BOOM" Can you rember the movie? Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton

Roger Wright

Depleted uranium emits approximately 40% less radiation than naturally occurring uranium, and no case of human cancer has been recorded that could be linked to exposure to uranium. A full study of the toxicology of uranium (the pure stuff, not the depleted variety) is available here[^]. A battlefield risk that has been noted in many areas where supposed effects of DU radiation have been reported is an abundance of East Bloc weapons and systems that utilize far more emissive substances, radium paint among them. Toxicity for DU, chemical or radiological, depends upon ingestion or other means of entering the human body, and radiological effects are strongly dependent upon how long the material remains in the system. A person shot through with a DU projectile ( aside from the gaping hole in him ) is unlikely to experience any long term effects, while a person who inhales a quantity of dust from one splattered against a wall next to his head is more likely to retain dust particles and be subjected to long term gamma radiation effects. One interesting fact I discovered from a few minutes' browsing is that the alpha radiation is blocked by the skin, while boots and clothing are sufficient to block the beta particles. The gamma radiation penetrates most things, but the levels emitted by DU are tiny, generally less than normal background radiation levels. Ancient man conquered his rivals with the jawbone of an ass; modern man uses the jawbone of a politician.

Rob Graham

I like the sig, but am not exactly sure that it points out any difference bteween ancient and modern man.:-D Never met a politician that wasn't mostly an ass. Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped. - Elbert Hubbard

Jason Henderson

brianwelsch wrote: I actually see it as a positive sign of our world as it is today, that people get outraged at individual incidents with relatively low body counts. Are they really outraged? From my vantage point it looks more like anti-americanism. I'm sure some are really concerned, but the Arab world isn't, IMO.

Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

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Bilal Naveed

Jason Henderson wrote: I'm sure some are really concerned, but the Arab world isn't, IMO. Well it's the same here. Some govts support, others stay silent, one or two oppose. People on the other hand overwhelmingly against. The only difference is you won't see mass protest because there's never been a mass protest before! People just don't go out and protest. You only have to see Al-jazeera to know the depth of feeling here.

Bilal Naveed

Fifth element... Mila Jovovich or someone of similar name.

Bilal Naveed

Well the whole point abt Geneva convention was side-tracked... so allow me to restart. What about deliberate bombing of civilian installations? Like Iraqi television?

Paul Watson

Maybe we are more humane and aware of the value of each life in this day and age. Also this war is different to most. It's justification is based on one single man in one single country. Also while it seems the assumption was wrong it was assumed that this is a David vs. Goliath situation with a slingless David. In those situations one assumes that Goliath can spare some of it's power to limit the civilian casuality rate while still defeating David. I assume when two enemies are evenly matched the fighting is much fiercer and the "colateral damage" more wide spread.

Paul Watson
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Macbeth muttered: I am in blood / Stepped in so far, that should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o'er DavidW wrote: You are totally mad. Nice.

David Wulff

Nitron wrote: Comments? Too many to write. :|

David Wulff

"Somebody get this freakin' duck away from me!" - Strong Bad [^]

peterchen

You're right, the biggest hazard comes from it being toxic, and using DU leaves lots of Uranium dust which is the preferred form to serve it for slow and painful killing purposes. [edit] When working with the material, you probably have learned that: a) particle physicists might seem a bit "careless" b) radiation protection, for lack of data, assumes that radiation doeses are cumulative Also be noted: A population seems to be able to adopt to certain levels of radiation - there seem to be genomes to control the mutation rate in a certain range. I rememebr a report about some tribe in africa, living above a natural U238 reservoir, having no higher rate of mutation than others.[/edit]

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Jason Henderson

How is that a civilian installation when its government controlled?

Jason Henderson
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

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Chris Austin

peterchen wrote: a) particle physicists might seem a bit "careless" I'd say they are a bunch of crazy bastards. Esp. the "Low Energy" guys. Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton

Bedri Egrilmez

So you also believe people are overexaggerating the 9/11 thing, right? After all a mere 3000 people perished, not even worth mentioning. Only 0.00005 of the casualties of the World World II. It certainly cannot be an excuse to invade two countries (so far). Or perhaps there are some informal ratios I am unaware of, say: 1 US casualty = 3 UK casualties = 1000 Iraqi casualties

peterchen

Chris Austin wrote: I'd say they are a bunch of crazy bastards OK, that matches better ;) I just wanted to be careful...

Italian is a beautiful language. amare means to love, and amara bitter.
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