After years and years of being involved with Code Project...
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You know, there was a post the other day about how CP is losing popularity compared to SO, and it got me thinking. There are a few of us that's been involved with CP since it was created (looking at you Nish) well before SO or Pluralsight was even thought of. And looking back on it all these years later, it's worth saying that if CP never existed I know for certain I'd never would've been as educated as I became in development. And I imagine there are plenty of others out there that would attest to the same. As creators, fulfillment comes from knowing how your work impacted others. So @chris-maunder, you should know how CP impacted me. Which is it's given me a place online to rant (a lot :)) over the years but also read and read and read about technology in a manner so much better than simply reading MSDN. It's given me a sense of community online at times I where I didn't find that with my coworkers. And I was never charged a dime for it. Oh, and it's always had better emojis than SO. So thanks man. Thanks for busting your chops to create CP. It's hard to imagine life as a developer without it. I hope others take the time to express their thanks as well.
Jeremy Falcon
I am only a reader but find something interesting every day. I would also like to congratulate whoever it is that writes the sarcastic comments under each header that give me many a laugh.
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You know, there was a post the other day about how CP is losing popularity compared to SO, and it got me thinking. There are a few of us that's been involved with CP since it was created (looking at you Nish) well before SO or Pluralsight was even thought of. And looking back on it all these years later, it's worth saying that if CP never existed I know for certain I'd never would've been as educated as I became in development. And I imagine there are plenty of others out there that would attest to the same. As creators, fulfillment comes from knowing how your work impacted others. So @chris-maunder, you should know how CP impacted me. Which is it's given me a place online to rant (a lot :)) over the years but also read and read and read about technology in a manner so much better than simply reading MSDN. It's given me a sense of community online at times I where I didn't find that with my coworkers. And I was never charged a dime for it. Oh, and it's always had better emojis than SO. So thanks man. Thanks for busting your chops to create CP. It's hard to imagine life as a developer without it. I hope others take the time to express their thanks as well.
Jeremy Falcon
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SO == Stack Overflow - Where Developers Learn, Share, & Build Careers[^] Don't like the attitude there myself, but some do.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
SO - Just completely sucks these days, there was a time when SO Like CP used to be a great place to be, there was a LOT of influential people int here, folks like Jon Skeet (Who Hardly posts these days, he just sit's back and earns points for all the answers he ever wrote) Think is, I don't think it's just Code Project, I think it's all of us, Lidnug (Over on the Li-Platform) that I help run, is only a shadow of what it used to be, many of the really good, community sites and forums, all of which where built on the value of being a community are slowly disappearing into existence, to be replaced by anyone or anything that can give you a quick fix. From what I see, most modern day devs coming into the industry are no longer interested in the community spirit, they just want to know how to fix their problem, right now and give nothing back in return, it's become a commodity market, dominated by consumers and a dwindling number of producers. As a high question answerer on Quora, I regularly get emails requesting answers to questions, 90% of them are all disguised versions of "Whats the quickest shortcut to the untold riches that await me being a software developer" or "I have a project to do, whats the quickest/shortcut to complete it and get paid for it" Code Project, Lidnug, even the MSDN forums are not the shining places of knowledge sharing they once were, we are a dying breed, and it does make me sad to think that one day all this accumulated knowledge will lie dormant and forgotten, the pioneers that built a generation will be all but a blip on the history of the internet, developers will stop innovating (Much to the glee of the Business folk) and instead just be content with stitching together little black boxes, that know one knows about, or cares about how they work, as long as they work. Developers will just become another factory line production method to make money in the name of commerce, and actual skills will just vapourise into nothing.
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SO - Just completely sucks these days, there was a time when SO Like CP used to be a great place to be, there was a LOT of influential people int here, folks like Jon Skeet (Who Hardly posts these days, he just sit's back and earns points for all the answers he ever wrote) Think is, I don't think it's just Code Project, I think it's all of us, Lidnug (Over on the Li-Platform) that I help run, is only a shadow of what it used to be, many of the really good, community sites and forums, all of which where built on the value of being a community are slowly disappearing into existence, to be replaced by anyone or anything that can give you a quick fix. From what I see, most modern day devs coming into the industry are no longer interested in the community spirit, they just want to know how to fix their problem, right now and give nothing back in return, it's become a commodity market, dominated by consumers and a dwindling number of producers. As a high question answerer on Quora, I regularly get emails requesting answers to questions, 90% of them are all disguised versions of "Whats the quickest shortcut to the untold riches that await me being a software developer" or "I have a project to do, whats the quickest/shortcut to complete it and get paid for it" Code Project, Lidnug, even the MSDN forums are not the shining places of knowledge sharing they once were, we are a dying breed, and it does make me sad to think that one day all this accumulated knowledge will lie dormant and forgotten, the pioneers that built a generation will be all but a blip on the history of the internet, developers will stop innovating (Much to the glee of the Business folk) and instead just be content with stitching together little black boxes, that know one knows about, or cares about how they work, as long as they work. Developers will just become another factory line production method to make money in the name of commerce, and actual skills will just vapourise into nothing.
Not just development. "Deskilling" is an accountant mantra: it means you get the same work done for less money by paying robots (or their human equivelant) to do "black-box assembly" work instead of skilled professionals that understandably want to be paid more. That the next generation of products will have to be created by the robots is irrelevant, accountants do not think past the end-of-year results (and their bonuses). And that harms not only the professions, but the economy as well, because with less money coming in at the bottom end, there is less bought, so more pressure on costs, so more deskilling / outsourcing , so less money at the bottom again. And you end up with everything being made in the cheapest place (currently China) and quality generally going right down the toilet. :sigh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Not just development. "Deskilling" is an accountant mantra: it means you get the same work done for less money by paying robots (or their human equivelant) to do "black-box assembly" work instead of skilled professionals that understandably want to be paid more. That the next generation of products will have to be created by the robots is irrelevant, accountants do not think past the end-of-year results (and their bonuses). And that harms not only the professions, but the economy as well, because with less money coming in at the bottom end, there is less bought, so more pressure on costs, so more deskilling / outsourcing , so less money at the bottom again. And you end up with everything being made in the cheapest place (currently China) and quality generally going right down the toilet. :sigh:
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Indeed. but what can we do, it seems not a lot, beacuse there are now more robots than there are skilled folks doing the job. Me personally, Iv'e been branching out more and more into teaching and authorship, I fear that in the next 10 years or so, I may even end up leaving software development behind, permanently. I came into this game from the late 70's with one clear goal, and that was to pass on my knowledge, to work with other newbies, so they wouldn't have to go through the same routine of waiting weeks before you got a reply to your post on your local BBS, or having to spend hours searching usenet for that illusive text file that you saw 2 weeks ago, I always swore that I would pass on my knowledge, my skills and that I would help others avoid the pain I endured to get where I did. But now like many have said in this thread, there are many of us with years of experience who's answers routinely get down voted on places like SO, simply because they appear on the asker's radar after a google search, but don't answer the asker's question immediately. At least however, CP is still here, and myself and the rest of the team do what we can to keep Lidnug going, so those of us who do still care, do still have a place we can call home.
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You know, there was a post the other day about how CP is losing popularity compared to SO, and it got me thinking. There are a few of us that's been involved with CP since it was created (looking at you Nish) well before SO or Pluralsight was even thought of. And looking back on it all these years later, it's worth saying that if CP never existed I know for certain I'd never would've been as educated as I became in development. And I imagine there are plenty of others out there that would attest to the same. As creators, fulfillment comes from knowing how your work impacted others. So @chris-maunder, you should know how CP impacted me. Which is it's given me a place online to rant (a lot :)) over the years but also read and read and read about technology in a manner so much better than simply reading MSDN. It's given me a sense of community online at times I where I didn't find that with my coworkers. And I was never charged a dime for it. Oh, and it's always had better emojis than SO. So thanks man. Thanks for busting your chops to create CP. It's hard to imagine life as a developer without it. I hope others take the time to express their thanks as well.
Jeremy Falcon
Mate: thanks for the kind words, but mostly thanks you and everyone else here has given software developers who, like ourselves many moons ago, were just starting and trying to find their way. It's hard. We're strange people. We're smart, a little arrogant, and generally don't suffer fools lightly but the group we have here are the kindest, most patient coaches and teachers I've ever seen. You guys are amazing.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Indeed. but what can we do, it seems not a lot, beacuse there are now more robots than there are skilled folks doing the job. Me personally, Iv'e been branching out more and more into teaching and authorship, I fear that in the next 10 years or so, I may even end up leaving software development behind, permanently. I came into this game from the late 70's with one clear goal, and that was to pass on my knowledge, to work with other newbies, so they wouldn't have to go through the same routine of waiting weeks before you got a reply to your post on your local BBS, or having to spend hours searching usenet for that illusive text file that you saw 2 weeks ago, I always swore that I would pass on my knowledge, my skills and that I would help others avoid the pain I endured to get where I did. But now like many have said in this thread, there are many of us with years of experience who's answers routinely get down voted on places like SO, simply because they appear on the asker's radar after a google search, but don't answer the asker's question immediately. At least however, CP is still here, and myself and the rest of the team do what we can to keep Lidnug going, so those of us who do still care, do still have a place we can call home.
Bingo... And this, to a degree, has been one of those unforeseen consequences of our education systems churning out test scores. I was watching it happen at Michigan State. When we graduated we had a Senior Design Sequence where we had to keep our code from the previous 2 trimesters, to teach us how bad code decisions in the beginning become hellish impediments in the end. (We wrote a compiler or a DB or an AI system from scratch). As I was leaving in 1992, they were starting to water it all down, because enrollment was dropping. But enrollment was dropping because the standards back in HS were dropping. Nowadays kids can't do Algebra after graduating HS, so they are planning to DROP it from college requirements??? This is a school system creating dumb robots. And schools were already designed to keep kids busy until they were old enough to work in factories. But now without Vocational options. A huge dichotomy is what I see now. Kids in the Robotics club, and EVERY ONE else not even caring about how to use a computer, or being offered a chance to learn how to type. Literally EVERY kid has a computer, and no teacher giving TYPING SCORES as an extra credit??? Then they graduate from college without ever being REALLY challenged. And they don't think about leaving behind a legacy. They want to coast through this job to the next one. And I believe this is what we are witnessing.
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Mate: thanks for the kind words, but mostly thanks you and everyone else here has given software developers who, like ourselves many moons ago, were just starting and trying to find their way. It's hard. We're strange people. We're smart, a little arrogant, and generally don't suffer fools lightly but the group we have here are the kindest, most patient coaches and teachers I've ever seen. You guys are amazing.
cheers Chris Maunder
You're welcome man. And I absolutely agree on all fronts.
Jeremy Falcon
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Mate: thanks for the kind words, but mostly thanks you and everyone else here has given software developers who, like ourselves many moons ago, were just starting and trying to find their way. It's hard. We're strange people. We're smart, a little arrogant, and generally don't suffer fools lightly but the group we have here are the kindest, most patient coaches and teachers I've ever seen. You guys are amazing.
cheers Chris Maunder
Hi Chris, I joined CP in June 2007 and its witty, no BS tone has kept me an avid reader of the Daily News and Lounge Discussions. This is my first posting and I bet there are many silent others like me who value the sanity that CP offers in an officially humourless world that values BS over fact. Thank you very much Chris for keeping CP on track all these years. Good on you, mate. Cheers, David
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Bingo... And this, to a degree, has been one of those unforeseen consequences of our education systems churning out test scores. I was watching it happen at Michigan State. When we graduated we had a Senior Design Sequence where we had to keep our code from the previous 2 trimesters, to teach us how bad code decisions in the beginning become hellish impediments in the end. (We wrote a compiler or a DB or an AI system from scratch). As I was leaving in 1992, they were starting to water it all down, because enrollment was dropping. But enrollment was dropping because the standards back in HS were dropping. Nowadays kids can't do Algebra after graduating HS, so they are planning to DROP it from college requirements??? This is a school system creating dumb robots. And schools were already designed to keep kids busy until they were old enough to work in factories. But now without Vocational options. A huge dichotomy is what I see now. Kids in the Robotics club, and EVERY ONE else not even caring about how to use a computer, or being offered a chance to learn how to type. Literally EVERY kid has a computer, and no teacher giving TYPING SCORES as an extra credit??? Then they graduate from college without ever being REALLY challenged. And they don't think about leaving behind a legacy. They want to coast through this job to the next one. And I believe this is what we are witnessing.
Agreed. There was a sad tale in today's news that a university in Scotland has dropped a course because no students have managed to pass the end of term exams. Pardon? May be they should check the tutors instead. And while driving home last night I passed an advertising poster with the words "Learn to code in three months". Damn! I wish that course had been running thirty years ago. It would have saved me a lot of time.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
