What Would You Do?
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That really depends on the company. A strong company that had bad year is one thing but a weak company that is circling the drain is another. If I knew what company you are talking about, I could pull up some market analysis on them for you.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Should've read this post first, but you pretty much took my answer. Good points of course.
Jeremy Falcon
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If you're going to concern yourself with the stock market indirectly like that, Warren Buffet recommends not worrying about the stock price and look at the company. So the question is, do you believe this company will survive... yes or no?
Jeremy Falcon
I am kind of curious what company he works at. I've got my investment portal open and some cursory research (with evidence at hand) pulls up some close candidates...none of them are companies that I would invest my hard-earned money in.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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I am kind of curious what company he works at. I've got my investment portal open and some cursory research (with evidence at hand) pulls up some close candidates...none of them are companies that I would invest my hard-earned money in.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Yeah totally. Buy low, sell high... ya know. Not sure if he'll mention it over CP, but it's always worth a direct message or three. I'd be curious to know what you find out.
Jeremy Falcon
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I am kind of curious what company he works at. I've got my investment portal open and some cursory research (with evidence at hand) pulls up some close candidates...none of them are companies that I would invest my hard-earned money in.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Is it possible to PM you here on CP?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
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Is it possible to PM you here on CP?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
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Is it possible to PM you here on CP?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
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I tried to PM you but GMail's email servers blocked it. Should I try you directly at your gmail account?
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Sure
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K. Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%. While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits. For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with. My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
I have twice had "stock options", whatever they are. I never got the chance to find out because both companies tanked before any stock came my way! I also once had a percentage of the profits - except, through "careful" accounting the company never actually made any profit. The previous software director who had my post started a law suit on this very issue. Shortly afterwards, the president of the company fired everyone (including the company lawyer) and fled the country with the IRS and the FBI in hot pursuit!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Yeah totally. Buy low, sell high... ya know. Not sure if he'll mention it over CP, but it's always worth a direct message or three. I'd be curious to know what you find out.
Jeremy Falcon
Pulled up the OP's company data. Company has not been profitable and relies on outside investment to fund daily operations and R&D. Revenues have declined the last 3 quarters straight. Prospects for a breakout are small and several Wall Street firms downgraded the stock to Market Perform. Additionally, several prominent law firms are launching investigations as of Nov 03. Informed OP that, IMHO, that it might be wise to find employment elsewhere.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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I have twice had "stock options", whatever they are. I never got the chance to find out because both companies tanked before any stock came my way! I also once had a percentage of the profits - except, through "careful" accounting the company never actually made any profit. The previous software director who had my post started a law suit on this very issue. Shortly afterwards, the president of the company fired everyone (including the company lawyer) and fled the country with the IRS and the FBI in hot pursuit!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
You have to exercise your stock options to get them. Stock Option ------------------------- The seller agrees to sell stock at a set price before the contract expiration day. The buyer has the option to buy those shares at any time before the contract ends. What this means is that your company has agreed to sell you X amount of shares at X price but you have to buy them before the contract expires. If you company was offering stock at a steep discount, it would have been a good idea to buy it then flip it for a profit as soon as you could.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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Pulled up the OP's company data. Company has not been profitable and relies on outside investment to fund daily operations and R&D. Revenues have declined the last 3 quarters straight. Prospects for a breakout are small and several Wall Street firms downgraded the stock to Market Perform. Additionally, several prominent law firms are launching investigations as of Nov 03. Informed OP that, IMHO, that it might be wise to find employment elsewhere.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Foothill wrote:
wise to find employment elsewhere.
Based on your facts and figures, yes, absolutely. :sigh:
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K. Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%. While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits. For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with. My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
Boy do I have that t-shirt. At this point, I'd be more focused on your confidence level of the company leadership. If you have even the least bit of concern, you need to make moves to protect yourself. The senior people always have the best parachute and always act in their best interest. Always. If you're not completely isolated from the other employees, you should have some idea as to the general morale of the company.
Charlie Gilley <italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape... "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K. Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%. While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits. For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with. My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
My greatest shortcoming is my inability to see when a position is going to end. 4 or 5 times I have been left without a job when the company I worked for tanked or was acquired and that was BEFORE I became a contractor, 20 years ago! No advice forth coming, be thankful.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Pulled up the OP's company data. Company has not been profitable and relies on outside investment to fund daily operations and R&D. Revenues have declined the last 3 quarters straight. Prospects for a breakout are small and several Wall Street firms downgraded the stock to Market Perform. Additionally, several prominent law firms are launching investigations as of Nov 03. Informed OP that, IMHO, that it might be wise to find employment elsewhere.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); } Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
Ouch, clearly the 97% drop was justified then. Thanks for the update.
Jeremy Falcon
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K. Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%. While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits. For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with. My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
I had something similar at my previous job. So, that bonus you mention might read "indicative at 100% payout" or similar. So that number is not really set in stone. As far as stocks are concerned, it is a gamble. Since I don't know anything about your workplace I am not in position to suggest anything. But, few things to think about: 1. Is this temporary or permanent? 2. Is my job position in danger? 3. If company stocks are still going down, is there any chance that there can be a merger or acquisition? 4. If someone buys out the current company, what happens to my stocks?
"It is easy to decipher extraterrestrial signals after deciphering Javascript and VB6 themselves.", ISanti[^]
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K. Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%. While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits. For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with. My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K. Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%. While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits. For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with. My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
Been there. Actually have been there. Bonus was zero though. Company was tanking hard. Boss was an ass. I left. Things are better for me now. Company still sucks though. Had buddy that went there with almost the same offer I had. 1 year later he is looking. So I would leave.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K. Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%. While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits. For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with. My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
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I've never had the option of bonuses... ...but I have received a pay cut due to the company not making profits. It was 5%, but even then it was frustrating. Not enough to make me 'have to leave', and so I didn't. I stuck it out, and was loyal. Then many months later, after surviving about 4 rounds of layoffs... the business closed, and I had no job. My personal recommendation: start discretely looking now. They have until you get a better offer to turn things around. If they do indeed turn around, you can always choose to stay. If they don't turn it around, there is no need to be satisfied with a hope that cannot be fulfilled.
Pualee wrote:
My personal recommendation: start discretely looking now. They have until you get a better offer to turn things around. If they do indeed turn around, you can always choose to stay. If they don't turn it around, there is no need to be satisfied with a hope that cannot be fulfilled.
This thread has a lot of good advice, but this one is the best. I know far too many people who stayed with a tanking company and lost -- those that bailed early got their final paycheck plus any payments for accumulated vacation. Those that didn't ... didn't. Something I heard my dad say fairly often: "It's easier to find a job while you already have one."
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K. Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%. While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits. For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with. My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is. Everything makes sense in someone's mind. Ya can't fix stupid.
Well, you're in a strong position to understand what's going on inside your company. If sales are bad, and it's the software's fault, that's why they give performance bonuses and stock-based compensation. If the company's stock is down and it's due to stupid management decisions, then bail, dude. It's not the market, not this year. Somebody thinks your company sucks. Might even be insiders dumping their stake. I once worked at a place where the accountants and division management front-ran the quarterly reports. Very illegal, but lots of people do it. In a more general sense, I have always been disappointed with variable compensation. Stock, options, bonuses; they're never worth as much as advertised. Options particularly, tend to expire worthless, unless you are very lucky. I only pay attention to the cash compensation and treat the variable compensation as a $1 lottery ticket that might pay $1 million but is probably just a scrap of paper. I've become resistant to founder stories of buyouts and infinite growth potential. [Sigh]