IBM, I am soooo disappointed in you
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This story really has me mad. Insider News[^] And here's the original report at ProPublica Cutting ‘Old Heads’ at IBM[^]. To think that IBM of all companies was/is engaged in this kind of behavior. Dumping your wisest and most experienced personnel in favor of inexperienced college grads is asinine. It's like they completely forgot that it was the older generation that built the foundation that everything runs on today. Hiring people well familiarized with social media services is all fine and dandy but I doubt that they can provide the same level of quality or customer care than the 'Out-Modes' that they are replacing could. I would not at all be happy to give 15+ years of my life to a company only to be sucker-punched and left on the curb. If this report turns out to be 100% factual, and would suppose that it is given its source, I will try whatever I can to ensure that my entire branch of government never does business with IBM again. I will even try to get our pension fund to drop their stock if it owns it. I'm not even over the hill yet and I know better to treat our senior personnel like this.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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This story really has me mad. Insider News[^] And here's the original report at ProPublica Cutting ‘Old Heads’ at IBM[^]. To think that IBM of all companies was/is engaged in this kind of behavior. Dumping your wisest and most experienced personnel in favor of inexperienced college grads is asinine. It's like they completely forgot that it was the older generation that built the foundation that everything runs on today. Hiring people well familiarized with social media services is all fine and dandy but I doubt that they can provide the same level of quality or customer care than the 'Out-Modes' that they are replacing could. I would not at all be happy to give 15+ years of my life to a company only to be sucker-punched and left on the curb. If this report turns out to be 100% factual, and would suppose that it is given its source, I will try whatever I can to ensure that my entire branch of government never does business with IBM again. I will even try to get our pension fund to drop their stock if it owns it. I'm not even over the hill yet and I know better to treat our senior personnel like this.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Cutting older people off early means you save on your pensions payouts, which amounts to a considerable saving for a company like IBM. Not defending it, just saying that's a primary motive for such behaviour. Many companies are finding their pensions obligations are going to cripple them and are looking desperately for ways to save.
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This story really has me mad. Insider News[^] And here's the original report at ProPublica Cutting ‘Old Heads’ at IBM[^]. To think that IBM of all companies was/is engaged in this kind of behavior. Dumping your wisest and most experienced personnel in favor of inexperienced college grads is asinine. It's like they completely forgot that it was the older generation that built the foundation that everything runs on today. Hiring people well familiarized with social media services is all fine and dandy but I doubt that they can provide the same level of quality or customer care than the 'Out-Modes' that they are replacing could. I would not at all be happy to give 15+ years of my life to a company only to be sucker-punched and left on the curb. If this report turns out to be 100% factual, and would suppose that it is given its source, I will try whatever I can to ensure that my entire branch of government never does business with IBM again. I will even try to get our pension fund to drop their stock if it owns it. I'm not even over the hill yet and I know better to treat our senior personnel like this.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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It sucks but that's part of running a business. Do you have an alternative suggestion?
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Changing the pension and insurance system.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Changing the pension and insurance system.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Changing the pension and insurance system.
That would probably upset everyone, instead of just those being laid off. But they could keep their jobs.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Cutting older people off early means you save on your pensions payouts, which amounts to a considerable saving for a company like IBM. Not defending it, just saying that's a primary motive for such behaviour. Many companies are finding their pensions obligations are going to cripple them and are looking desperately for ways to save.
It doesn't save them a cent if they run on 401K contributions, as many companies do in lieu of pension.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Changing the pension and insurance system.
That would probably upset everyone, instead of just those being laid off. But they could keep their jobs.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Obviously not everyone, but the ones sitting on the money.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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It sucks but that's part of running a business. Do you have an alternative suggestion?
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
The fact that this kind of thing happens so frequently that most people see it as part of running a business is the problem. Companies that expect loyalty from their employees but are not willing to reciprocate that loyalty, especially when things get tough, are hypocritical. Since I do not see any information stating that the upper management at IBM took pay cuts so that they could keep their most tenured people, all I have is a feeling of disgust. To me, this appears that upper management made bad strategic decisions and punished their own employees for it instead of taking the responsibility themselves. It's cowardly and loathsome.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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The fact that this kind of thing happens so frequently that most people see it as part of running a business is the problem. Companies that expect loyalty from their employees but are not willing to reciprocate that loyalty, especially when things get tough, are hypocritical. Since I do not see any information stating that the upper management at IBM took pay cuts so that they could keep their most tenured people, all I have is a feeling of disgust. To me, this appears that upper management made bad strategic decisions and punished their own employees for it instead of taking the responsibility themselves. It's cowardly and loathsome.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
I guess my point of view is different. My company does not owe me anything unless I have done the work. It's nice if they are loyal to me but I don't take it personal if they let me go. I just go find another job. "Job security" is not a real thing, other than making sure you have valuable skills to offer.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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I guess my point of view is different. My company does not owe me anything unless I have done the work. It's nice if they are loyal to me but I don't take it personal if they let me go. I just go find another job. "Job security" is not a real thing, other than making sure you have valuable skills to offer.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
There is always two sides to an argument. I always approach these kinds of things from the mindset of 'take care of your employees and they will take care of you.' If the people that work for you believe that they are being treated fairly and respectfully, they will be more inclined to go above and beyond the call, are less likely to run off with your trade secrets, and will generally provide better service to your customers; happy employees == happy customers == better revenues. It's kind of a no-brainer to me. Of course, how IBM handled this whole thing makes me doubt their viability to survive as a company. IBM could have easiliy positioned themselves as the go-to IAAS provider for all tech firms large and small. Instead of the cloud running on IBM servers, it runs on Amazon, Microsoft, and Cisco servers. They had (gone now) the expertise and the ability but failed to see the direction the industry was moving. What else are they going to miss the boat on?
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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There is always two sides to an argument. I always approach these kinds of things from the mindset of 'take care of your employees and they will take care of you.' If the people that work for you believe that they are being treated fairly and respectfully, they will be more inclined to go above and beyond the call, are less likely to run off with your trade secrets, and will generally provide better service to your customers; happy employees == happy customers == better revenues. It's kind of a no-brainer to me. Of course, how IBM handled this whole thing makes me doubt their viability to survive as a company. IBM could have easiliy positioned themselves as the go-to IAAS provider for all tech firms large and small. Instead of the cloud running on IBM servers, it runs on Amazon, Microsoft, and Cisco servers. They had (gone now) the expertise and the ability but failed to see the direction the industry was moving. What else are they going to miss the boat on?
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Foothill wrote:
'take care of your employees and they will take care of you.'
Of course. I'm simply pointing out that sometimes an employer can no longer take care of all the employees and has to let some go. Sucks, but that's how it works.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Foothill wrote:
'take care of your employees and they will take care of you.'
Of course. I'm simply pointing out that sometimes an employer can no longer take care of all the employees and has to let some go. Sucks, but that's how it works.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
Yes, but does that have to always be the case or is that what we have become accustomed to? I would like to believe that if your workforce is truly loyal and knows that their employer has their back, they might me more inclined to take a pay cut or learn new skills in order to help their company pivot and adapt. You will be surprised what people will do when they believe in what they are doing and the lengths they go to defend their company when they know that as long as the company exists, it will take care of them. IBM didn't inform their employees of what was going on nor did they even give them a chance to choose for themselves. The perception is that they view their employees as a commodity; to be used up and discarded with little thought. It's dehumanizing.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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Yes, but does that have to always be the case or is that what we have become accustomed to? I would like to believe that if your workforce is truly loyal and knows that their employer has their back, they might me more inclined to take a pay cut or learn new skills in order to help their company pivot and adapt. You will be surprised what people will do when they believe in what they are doing and the lengths they go to defend their company when they know that as long as the company exists, it will take care of them. IBM didn't inform their employees of what was going on nor did they even give them a chance to choose for themselves. The perception is that they view their employees as a commodity; to be used up and discarded with little thought. It's dehumanizing.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Foothill wrote:
they might me more inclined to take a pay cut
I'd be curious if there were people like that. As a developer in the US, it's easy to go get a new job so no, for me, I don't think I'd ever take a pay cut to help the company.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Foothill wrote:
they might me more inclined to take a pay cut
I'd be curious if there were people like that. As a developer in the US, it's easy to go get a new job so no, for me, I don't think I'd ever take a pay cut to help the company.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
011111100010 wrote:
I'd be curious if there were people like that.
There are. Hindsight is always 20/20. Their are plenty of people who, given the choice, would rather be paid less than not paid at all.
011111100010 wrote:
As a developer in the US, it's easy to go get a new job so no, for me, I don't think I'd ever take a pay cut to help the company.
You are viewing this through your own eyes. The percentage of people who understand computers and can program them is around 0.5% of the total U.S. workforce [^]. With a sought-after skill-set and a general lack of talent in free-agency, finding a new job is only a matter of time with plenty of selection to boot. This is not the same for all other fields. Computers don't care what language the code is written in, it will execute the same code the same way pretty much everywhere so programming skills picked up in one position easily transfer to the next. The same cannot be said of sales and customer service where quality of service is based in product/company-specific knowledge. Did we pick a good career field? Of course we did. However, a lot of people are incapable of programming a computer or understanding them enough to be a system admin. To not attempt to look at these incidents through their eyes is inconsiderate and lacks empathy.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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011111100010 wrote:
I'd be curious if there were people like that.
There are. Hindsight is always 20/20. Their are plenty of people who, given the choice, would rather be paid less than not paid at all.
011111100010 wrote:
As a developer in the US, it's easy to go get a new job so no, for me, I don't think I'd ever take a pay cut to help the company.
You are viewing this through your own eyes. The percentage of people who understand computers and can program them is around 0.5% of the total U.S. workforce [^]. With a sought-after skill-set and a general lack of talent in free-agency, finding a new job is only a matter of time with plenty of selection to boot. This is not the same for all other fields. Computers don't care what language the code is written in, it will execute the same code the same way pretty much everywhere so programming skills picked up in one position easily transfer to the next. The same cannot be said of sales and customer service where quality of service is based in product/company-specific knowledge. Did we pick a good career field? Of course we did. However, a lot of people are incapable of programming a computer or understanding them enough to be a system admin. To not attempt to look at these incidents through their eyes is inconsiderate and lacks empathy.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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This story really has me mad. Insider News[^] And here's the original report at ProPublica Cutting ‘Old Heads’ at IBM[^]. To think that IBM of all companies was/is engaged in this kind of behavior. Dumping your wisest and most experienced personnel in favor of inexperienced college grads is asinine. It's like they completely forgot that it was the older generation that built the foundation that everything runs on today. Hiring people well familiarized with social media services is all fine and dandy but I doubt that they can provide the same level of quality or customer care than the 'Out-Modes' that they are replacing could. I would not at all be happy to give 15+ years of my life to a company only to be sucker-punched and left on the curb. If this report turns out to be 100% factual, and would suppose that it is given its source, I will try whatever I can to ensure that my entire branch of government never does business with IBM again. I will even try to get our pension fund to drop their stock if it owns it. I'm not even over the hill yet and I know better to treat our senior personnel like this.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
I would not at all be happy to give 15+ years of my life to a company. Just work until the project is completed, then to fresh Woods and Pastures new.
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This story really has me mad. Insider News[^] And here's the original report at ProPublica Cutting ‘Old Heads’ at IBM[^]. To think that IBM of all companies was/is engaged in this kind of behavior. Dumping your wisest and most experienced personnel in favor of inexperienced college grads is asinine. It's like they completely forgot that it was the older generation that built the foundation that everything runs on today. Hiring people well familiarized with social media services is all fine and dandy but I doubt that they can provide the same level of quality or customer care than the 'Out-Modes' that they are replacing could. I would not at all be happy to give 15+ years of my life to a company only to be sucker-punched and left on the curb. If this report turns out to be 100% factual, and would suppose that it is given its source, I will try whatever I can to ensure that my entire branch of government never does business with IBM again. I will even try to get our pension fund to drop their stock if it owns it. I'm not even over the hill yet and I know better to treat our senior personnel like this.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Foothill wrote:
To think that IBM of all companies was/is engaged in this kind of behavior
They are special some how? They once owned the world and now they are having trouble surviving so they are floundering around trying to find something that works.
Foothill wrote:
I would not at all be happy to give 15+ years of my life to a company only to be sucker-punched and left on the curb.
How many years would you be good with? My understanding is that one is actually better off changing jobs about every 2 years because cost of living adjustments at an existing company are unlikely to be as good as what one can negotiate at a new company.
Foothill wrote:
If this report turns out to be 100% factual, and would suppose that it is given its source,
Very little in this world that is 100% certain.