Iran war
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Le centriste wrote:
wouldn't that be an act of war?
It would be no more (or less) an act of war than say... attacking oil tankers or shooting down an air plane. :rolleyes:
Le centriste wrote:
Could that be done without Congress approval?
Of course. The US congress probably wouldn't want to vote on this. It would require them to attach their names to official votes. The various senators running for POTUS wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. Better to sit back and critique after the fact...
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
shooting down an air plane
Are you talking about the drone? They claim it was flying in Iranian airspace.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
shooting down an air plane
Are you talking about the drone? They claim it was flying in Iranian airspace.
Le centriste wrote:
They claim it was flying in Iranian airspace.
Of course they do... :doh:
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Le centriste wrote:
wouldn't that be an act of war?
It would be no more (or less) an act of war than say... attacking oil tankers or shooting down an air plane. :rolleyes:
Le centriste wrote:
Could that be done without Congress approval?
Of course. The US congress probably wouldn't want to vote on this. It would require them to attach their names to official votes. The various senators running for POTUS wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. Better to sit back and critique after the fact...
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
attacking oil tankers or shooting down an air plane.
There is no evidence that Iran was behind the tanker attacks and with competing claims over the location of the drone, no real justification in increasing tensions with an airstrike on Iran.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
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Le centriste wrote:
They claim it was flying in Iranian airspace.
Of course they do... :doh:
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Of course they do... :doh:
And what if it is true. That would not surprise me.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
attacking oil tankers or shooting down an air plane.
There is no evidence that Iran was behind the tanker attacks and with competing claims over the location of the drone, no real justification in increasing tensions with an airstrike on Iran.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
Majerus wrote:
There is no evidence that Iran was behind the tanker attacks
:laugh: Careful there comrade! Even your party bosses are saying there is indeed evidence. It's starting to slowly filter out to your pet media as well. Better read today's DNC talking points...
Majerus wrote:
with competing claims over the location of the drone
If I claim it was shot down over my swimming pool does that count too? :rolleyes:
Majerus wrote:
in increasing tensions with an airstrike on Iran.
I'm betting if the American Democrats and Eurotrash actually got on board with trying to stop Iran from sponsoring terror networks instead of coddling them... Iran might see things differently and tensions would lessen on their own.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Of course they do... :doh:
And what if it is true. That would not surprise me.
Your trust in Iran's Revolutionary Guard doesn't surprise me. :|
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Your trust in Iran's Revolutionary Guard doesn't surprise me. :|
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Your trust in Iran's Revolutionary Guard
I have absolutely no trust in them. Nor do I have any trust in Trump's administration.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
doesn't surprise me.
Why do you say that?
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Majerus wrote:
There is no evidence that Iran was behind the tanker attacks
:laugh: Careful there comrade! Even your party bosses are saying there is indeed evidence. It's starting to slowly filter out to your pet media as well. Better read today's DNC talking points...
Majerus wrote:
with competing claims over the location of the drone
If I claim it was shot down over my swimming pool does that count too? :rolleyes:
Majerus wrote:
in increasing tensions with an airstrike on Iran.
I'm betting if the American Democrats and Eurotrash actually got on board with trying to stop Iran from sponsoring terror networks instead of coddling them... Iran might see things differently and tensions would lessen on their own.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
I'm betting if the American Democrats and Eurotrash actually got on board with trying to stop Iran from sponsoring terror networks instead of coddling them... Iran might see things differently and tensions would lessen on their own.
Exactly. Majerus is a clown.
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Majerus wrote:
There is no evidence that Iran was behind the tanker attacks
:laugh: Careful there comrade! Even your party bosses are saying there is indeed evidence. It's starting to slowly filter out to your pet media as well. Better read today's DNC talking points...
Majerus wrote:
with competing claims over the location of the drone
If I claim it was shot down over my swimming pool does that count too? :rolleyes:
Majerus wrote:
in increasing tensions with an airstrike on Iran.
I'm betting if the American Democrats and Eurotrash actually got on board with trying to stop Iran from sponsoring terror networks instead of coddling them... Iran might see things differently and tensions would lessen on their own.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
there is indeed evidence.
Maybe, maybe not. You ready to start another Middle East war?
Mike Mullikin wrote:
If I claim it was shot down over my swimming pool does that count too?
It would be equally credible.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
got on board with trying to stop Iran
And what is Preznint Sundowner doing, threatening war? Escalating tensions does not seem to be a successful strategy for easing tensions.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Your trust in Iran's Revolutionary Guard
I have absolutely no trust in them. Nor do I have any trust in Trump's administration.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
doesn't surprise me.
Why do you say that?
Le centriste wrote:
Why do you say that?
Several years of reading your posts. :|
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Le centriste wrote:
Why do you say that?
Several years of reading your posts. :|
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Several years of reading your posts. :|
I never said I trusted Iran's Revolutionary Guard. You pulled that out of your ass.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
there is indeed evidence.
Maybe, maybe not. You ready to start another Middle East war?
Mike Mullikin wrote:
If I claim it was shot down over my swimming pool does that count too?
It would be equally credible.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
got on board with trying to stop Iran
And what is Preznint Sundowner doing, threatening war? Escalating tensions does not seem to be a successful strategy for easing tensions.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
Majerus wrote:
You ready to start another Middle East war?
Nope and I'm generally glad we didn't pull the trigger last night. However... Iran is begging to get slapped down. If / when we do it - it won't surprise me a bit. As you may recall I'm not a fan of the US acting as the world's policeman. If I had my way, we'd pull ALL military assets back to our own borders. We'd leave the UN and NATO. Let the rest of the world go up in flames - then negotiate a trade deal with whomever survives. But sadly that's not the world we currently live in. If we're acting as a policeman... sometimes we'll have to pull out our guns and sometimes we'll have to fire them.
Majerus wrote:
It would be equally credible.
;P Ask yourself a question. What possible evidence could the Trump administration or the US military produce that would convince you that the drone was not in Iranian airspace. If the answer is "There is none" then you seriously need to move to another country.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Majerus wrote:
You ready to start another Middle East war?
Nope and I'm generally glad we didn't pull the trigger last night. However... Iran is begging to get slapped down. If / when we do it - it won't surprise me a bit. As you may recall I'm not a fan of the US acting as the world's policeman. If I had my way, we'd pull ALL military assets back to our own borders. We'd leave the UN and NATO. Let the rest of the world go up in flames - then negotiate a trade deal with whomever survives. But sadly that's not the world we currently live in. If we're acting as a policeman... sometimes we'll have to pull out our guns and sometimes we'll have to fire them.
Majerus wrote:
It would be equally credible.
;P Ask yourself a question. What possible evidence could the Trump administration or the US military produce that would convince you that the drone was not in Iranian airspace. If the answer is "There is none" then you seriously need to move to another country.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
If I had my way, we'd pull ALL military assets back to our own borders.
Wow, can you imagine the amount of money we'd save by doing so? :omg: :omg:
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other. Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it. Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Several years of reading your posts. :|
I never said I trusted Iran's Revolutionary Guard. You pulled that out of your ass.
Their claim that the US drone was in their airspace was your excuse for why shooting it down was not an act of war. Sheesh!
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Their claim that the US drone was in their airspace was your excuse for why shooting it down was not an act of war. Sheesh!
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Their claim that the US drone was in their airspace was your excuse for why shooting it down was not an act of war. Sheesh!
I said "They claim". Never said I trusted them with that. But going to war over this is a mistake. And I don't trust Trump's administration that they claim in territorial waters. Sheesh!
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Majerus wrote:
You ready to start another Middle East war?
Nope and I'm generally glad we didn't pull the trigger last night. However... Iran is begging to get slapped down. If / when we do it - it won't surprise me a bit. As you may recall I'm not a fan of the US acting as the world's policeman. If I had my way, we'd pull ALL military assets back to our own borders. We'd leave the UN and NATO. Let the rest of the world go up in flames - then negotiate a trade deal with whomever survives. But sadly that's not the world we currently live in. If we're acting as a policeman... sometimes we'll have to pull out our guns and sometimes we'll have to fire them.
Majerus wrote:
It would be equally credible.
;P Ask yourself a question. What possible evidence could the Trump administration or the US military produce that would convince you that the drone was not in Iranian airspace. If the answer is "There is none" then you seriously need to move to another country.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
If I had my way, we'd pull ALL military assets back to our own borders. We'd leave the UN and NATO. Let the rest of the world go up in flames
It may end up the other way. Everyone off better without the US. :laugh: :laugh: Except Canada, poor Canada. It would feel very isolated.
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Majerus wrote:
You ready to start another Middle East war?
Nope and I'm generally glad we didn't pull the trigger last night. However... Iran is begging to get slapped down. If / when we do it - it won't surprise me a bit. As you may recall I'm not a fan of the US acting as the world's policeman. If I had my way, we'd pull ALL military assets back to our own borders. We'd leave the UN and NATO. Let the rest of the world go up in flames - then negotiate a trade deal with whomever survives. But sadly that's not the world we currently live in. If we're acting as a policeman... sometimes we'll have to pull out our guns and sometimes we'll have to fire them.
Majerus wrote:
It would be equally credible.
;P Ask yourself a question. What possible evidence could the Trump administration or the US military produce that would convince you that the drone was not in Iranian airspace. If the answer is "There is none" then you seriously need to move to another country.
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Iran is begging to get slapped down.
I doubt it. But if they did attack these two ships, then the government should attempt to interpret that message rather than use it as an excuse to start a war.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Let the rest of the world go up in flames...sadly that's not the world we currently live in
I am very glad that is not the world we live it.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
sometimes we'll have to pull out our guns and sometimes we'll have to fire them.
Maybe, but we should be very careful about when we chose to either pull guns or shoot them. I have seen nothing to suggest this administration* knows how to be careful.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
If the answer is "There is none"
That is correct. Il Douche and his minions have shown their eagerness for war with Iran and I have zero trust in them. We've already been pulled into a war under false pretenses and I have no interest in seeing a repeat performance.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
then you seriously need to move to another country.
No, actually I don't.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Their claim that the US drone was in their airspace was your excuse for why shooting it down was not an act of war. Sheesh!
I said "They claim". Never said I trusted them with that. But going to war over this is a mistake. And I don't trust Trump's administration that they claim in territorial waters. Sheesh!
Le centriste wrote:
But going to war over this is a mistake.
What is the official "Le centriste" litmus test for acts of war? Obviously you'd consider a retaliatory US airstrike against Iranian missile sites an act of war because you already said so. We know that you don't consider Iran attacking civilian ships (tankers) and shooting down unmanned US military aircraft to rise to the level of "act of war". What if Iran: Shoots at a civilian airliner? Shoots down a civilian airliner? Shoots at a manned US military aircraft? Shoots down a manned US military aircraft? Bombs a US military base? Fires missiles at Israel? Arrest, convict, execute a bunch of Americans in Iran? Do any of those pass the "Le centriste" test that would warrant a military response?
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Iran is begging to get slapped down.
I doubt it. But if they did attack these two ships, then the government should attempt to interpret that message rather than use it as an excuse to start a war.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Let the rest of the world go up in flames...sadly that's not the world we currently live in
I am very glad that is not the world we live it.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
sometimes we'll have to pull out our guns and sometimes we'll have to fire them.
Maybe, but we should be very careful about when we chose to either pull guns or shoot them. I have seen nothing to suggest this administration* knows how to be careful.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
If the answer is "There is none"
That is correct. Il Douche and his minions have shown their eagerness for war with Iran and I have zero trust in them. We've already been pulled into a war under false pretenses and I have no interest in seeing a repeat performance.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
then you seriously need to move to another country.
No, actually I don't.
Before the oath, Trump has managed to surpass 2nd term Nixon for paranoia, 2nd term Reagan for corruption & 2nd term Bush for incompetence.--R. Schooley Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” The president fired the FBI director to obstruct a federal investigation into possible collusion with a foreign power to fix an election. - Jesse Berne
Majerus wrote:
I have seen nothing to suggest this administration* knows how to be careful.
To date, he's been more careful than the previous 2 administrations. :rolleyes:
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
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Le centriste wrote:
But going to war over this is a mistake.
What is the official "Le centriste" litmus test for acts of war? Obviously you'd consider a retaliatory US airstrike against Iranian missile sites an act of war because you already said so. We know that you don't consider Iran attacking civilian ships (tankers) and shooting down unmanned US military aircraft to rise to the level of "act of war". What if Iran: Shoots at a civilian airliner? Shoots down a civilian airliner? Shoots at a manned US military aircraft? Shoots down a manned US military aircraft? Bombs a US military base? Fires missiles at Israel? Arrest, convict, execute a bunch of Americans in Iran? Do any of those pass the "Le centriste" test that would warrant a military response?
The Beer Prayer - Our lager, which art in barrels, hallowed be thy drink. Thy will be drunk, I will be drunk, at home as it is in the tavern. Give us this day our foamy head, and forgive us our spillage as we forgive those who spill against us. And lead us not to incarceration, but deliver us from hangovers. For thine is the beer, the bitter and the lager, for ever and ever. Barmen.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
We know that you don't consider Iran attacking civilian ships (tankers)
I don't know about the tanker, but they claim it is not them. And they claim the drone was in their airspace, they even have the pieces (as they say, that may be false). They may be lying, telling the truth, half-truth, etc. US may be lying on it too, deliberately flying a drone in Iran airspace so it gets shot, then claiming it was on international waters. So, you want to go at war with this? Remember when US had "proof" that Iraq was harvesting WMDs? They were never found, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and several thousands of American soldiers died, for that lie. You want to do that again?