C++ jobs in the Microsoft ecosystem
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
Well, Microsoft itself is always looking for C++ developers. Apart from that - mostly games and low-level system development.
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Well, Microsoft itself is always looking for C++ developers. Apart from that - mostly games and low-level system development.
Sounds like fun, actually.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats. His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
my take is: - windows is a good presentation platform (massage and show information to 1 person, and with interfaces via web and even say office apps programming is lite if not nearly fully automated), - windows is not well suited to processing information. (poor file handling capabilities and multi-processing capabilities in particular when you try and do those things together). Just look at how something pretty simple like chrome, excel even word with large documents can still cripple a windows machine (it demonstrates even a moderate level of basic context switching - not multitasking - is a strain for windows.) windows' core is still based on simplistic context switching (and rumored even some actual code) written for winxp, which let's face it was written for single user machines using a generation of processors and associated hardware that themselves were never designed / intended / even-in-wildest-dreams-envisioned for full-on multitasking ------------ summary in 1 sentence: windows is a single user presentation platform, not a processing platform. (and btw: all windows server does is add another layer of [still very basic] context switching and some simplistic semi-'virtualisation' capabilities to the windows code base.)
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my take is: - windows is a good presentation platform (massage and show information to 1 person, and with interfaces via web and even say office apps programming is lite if not nearly fully automated), - windows is not well suited to processing information. (poor file handling capabilities and multi-processing capabilities in particular when you try and do those things together). Just look at how something pretty simple like chrome, excel even word with large documents can still cripple a windows machine (it demonstrates even a moderate level of basic context switching - not multitasking - is a strain for windows.) windows' core is still based on simplistic context switching (and rumored even some actual code) written for winxp, which let's face it was written for single user machines using a generation of processors and associated hardware that themselves were never designed / intended / even-in-wildest-dreams-envisioned for full-on multitasking ------------ summary in 1 sentence: windows is a single user presentation platform, not a processing platform. (and btw: all windows server does is add another layer of [still very basic] context switching and some simplistic semi-'virtualisation' capabilities to the windows code base.)
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So true for end user boxes. No so for Server boxes. Windows Server has a different core.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
I assume there are a lot of specialized desktop application (all aspects of engineering for example) that still mostly use C++. They are not fancy or technically state of the art (it is hard to change due to inertia), but they are out there. That's what I've been doing for the last 25+ years of work ( I know crap of C# or all those new fangle internet technologies)
I'd rather be phishing!
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
Are you any good with an icon editor?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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So true for end user boxes. No so for Server boxes. Windows Server has a different core.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote:
Windows Server has a different core.
LOL it's a huge amount the same core just with some extra wrapping (and crapping) as mentioned before - an extra [sort of] layer on the context switching, some built-in sort-of virtualisation, a few extra facets to the security (albeit more at interface/app level rather then kernel), a few (again mostly app-level) extensions to networking and other libraries). like buying the basic version of a car, or the all-in version with 7 speed auto, cruise control, ABS, larger engine and ... - underneath still came from the same set of blueprints, aka. the same core design. (binaries of quite a few low level OS apps can be pulled back and forth between desktop & server - if the 'core' of each were very different that would be highly unlikely - just like you can pull the doors of the cheap model of the car and bolt it onto the top end model - same shape, same fitting points.)
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote:
Windows Server has a different core.
LOL it's a huge amount the same core just with some extra wrapping (and crapping) as mentioned before - an extra [sort of] layer on the context switching, some built-in sort-of virtualisation, a few extra facets to the security (albeit more at interface/app level rather then kernel), a few (again mostly app-level) extensions to networking and other libraries). like buying the basic version of a car, or the all-in version with 7 speed auto, cruise control, ABS, larger engine and ... - underneath still came from the same set of blueprints, aka. the same core design. (binaries of quite a few low level OS apps can be pulled back and forth between desktop & server - if the 'core' of each were very different that would be highly unlikely - just like you can pull the doors of the cheap model of the car and bolt it onto the top end model - same shape, same fitting points.)
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Much of that is true for older server versions, but no so much since Windows 8/Server 2012 timeframe and certainly not so from Windows 10/Server 2016 timeframe.
#SupportHeForShe Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
C++ jobs are mainly in embedded or game programming. Or maintaining legacy applications written 25 years ago with Borland C++ which is not even C++ Builder. Embedded or game industry will not hire a C++ guy like me with mostly VC++ and ATL/MFC experience. Microsoft has pretty much abandoned ATL/MFC. Not many C++ article readers compared to C# on CodeProject. Even on UWP, most examples are C#, not much C++/WinRT code examples.
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C++ jobs are mainly in embedded or game programming. Or maintaining legacy applications written 25 years ago with Borland C++ which is not even C++ Builder. Embedded or game industry will not hire a C++ guy like me with mostly VC++ and ATL/MFC experience. Microsoft has pretty much abandoned ATL/MFC. Not many C++ article readers compared to C# on CodeProject. Even on UWP, most examples are C#, not much C++/WinRT code examples.
There's games, but also modelling for professional use in specialty fields. Did that for years (besides another job in the same field). The speed difference wrt managed code can be in the (advertised) CUDA speedup ranges. Some of that, of course, is simply more effort to use finegrained multithreading which has become much more mainstream in C++. Such speedups will convince a lot of people because it allows much more interaction, a model obviously needs tuning and/or scenario's. Self-employed, though.
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C++ jobs are mainly in embedded or game programming. Or maintaining legacy applications written 25 years ago with Borland C++ which is not even C++ Builder. Embedded or game industry will not hire a C++ guy like me with mostly VC++ and ATL/MFC experience. Microsoft has pretty much abandoned ATL/MFC. Not many C++ article readers compared to C# on CodeProject. Even on UWP, most examples are C#, not much C++/WinRT code examples.
Shao Voon Wong wrote:
Embedded or game industry will not hire a C++ guy like me with mostly VC++ and ATL/MFC experience.
Yes, that was my background pre-.NET. Not done any serious C++ since about 2004. I did use STL but have no experience with Modern C++. Though I did have a 1-day contract to display an error message in some legacy VC++ codebase. Very strange assignment but hey it was better than sitting at home at the time. :laugh:
Kevin
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
Maybe because nowadays most desktop apps are written in C#, event system utilities.
Behzad
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
Chew on this: there have been over 300 C++ change proposals up for review at the next ISO C++ meeting. So many in fact that Herb Sutter, the chairman and a Microsoft employee, had to prioritize the list so the worker delegates didn't get overwhelmed. C# with its runtime module (read: insecure), born out of a pissing contest with java, will never be able to keep up with C++'s evolution. Even Microsoft has been dumping C# for years now. The C# developers just have bothered to notice it yet. There is absolutely no reasonable comparison in quality over time of the two programming languages where one is open-sourced and the other is guided by 100s of top computer scientists best efforts to gradually improve the language under the auspices of the International Standards Organization. Knowing this at the outset, I never left programming in ATL/MFC which from my perspective are the wave of the future. And guess what. Microsoft agrees with me.
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
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I've noticed in the past few years that most advertised C++ jobs are in the Linux ecosystem. Apart from legacy applications what new work is being done specifically in the Microsoft ecosystem?
Kevin
I am currently employed as a C++ dev on Microsoft operating systems. The oil field services companies still have a lot of work for C++. (I've worked for two so far). But they also have some C# work. I still get calls from recruiters for C++ in the Houston, Tx. area.
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Chew on this: there have been over 300 C++ change proposals up for review at the next ISO C++ meeting. So many in fact that Herb Sutter, the chairman and a Microsoft employee, had to prioritize the list so the worker delegates didn't get overwhelmed. C# with its runtime module (read: insecure), born out of a pissing contest with java, will never be able to keep up with C++'s evolution. Even Microsoft has been dumping C# for years now. The C# developers just have bothered to notice it yet. There is absolutely no reasonable comparison in quality over time of the two programming languages where one is open-sourced and the other is guided by 100s of top computer scientists best efforts to gradually improve the language under the auspices of the International Standards Organization. Knowing this at the outset, I never left programming in ATL/MFC which from my perspective are the wave of the future. And guess what. Microsoft agrees with me.
rtischer8277 wrote:
ATL/MFC which from my perspective are the wave of the future
How can a pre C++98 library be the wave of the future? While I do like C++17, there is still lack of support for desktop and web development, save for a few hobby projects here and there. I thought that with cloud computing people would look to C++ for (micro)service development and such, because of the smaller memory footprint and faster processing times (which translates to lower costs). As for desktop, Microsoft (IMHO) has failed over and over and probably aren't interested in it anymore. So I think that until that changes, C++ will remain a language for specific server-heavy programs. I hope I'm wrong though, as I like the language more than C# or Java or even F#.
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rtischer8277 wrote:
ATL/MFC which from my perspective are the wave of the future
How can a pre C++98 library be the wave of the future? While I do like C++17, there is still lack of support for desktop and web development, save for a few hobby projects here and there. I thought that with cloud computing people would look to C++ for (micro)service development and such, because of the smaller memory footprint and faster processing times (which translates to lower costs). As for desktop, Microsoft (IMHO) has failed over and over and probably aren't interested in it anymore. So I think that until that changes, C++ will remain a language for specific server-heavy programs. I hope I'm wrong though, as I like the language more than C# or Java or even F#.
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
How can a pre C++98 library be the wave of the future?
As I said in my posting, by betting on the right architectural horse from the outset. Microsoft did with MFC, but didn't with C# which was a corporate knee-jerk response to java. Whereas C++ is based on the International Standards Organization. C++20 will have Concepts, which it has taken Bjarne Stroustrup, creator of C++, 15 years to hatch and get through the committees, it will have coroutines, it will have, modules, more compile-time C++ constexpr, etc. etc. Don't know what these are? Then you are probably asleep programming in derivative semantic definition languages. What do ATL/MFC have to do with that? Simple. ATL/MFC are written in C++. And by the way, the next generation of C++ based ATL/MFC apps are on their way. Plus, Microsoft to their credit, has developed ARM64 which is a non-emulating translator opening the field of non-cross-compiling for other platforms but same (C++) code. My point is, being pre C++98 doesn't make the language non C++17 or C++20-able. That's a big difference between it and scripting languages or ones with runtime modules. Let's face it. Microsoft is a bumbling hero in my book. Fabulous technology, but what a price it took to get there.