What I have tried
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My policy would be strict: 1. give clear, concise, unambiguous instructions; improve them when possible. 2. for all: ignore who ignores the instructions, not even a lengthy "Bad question..." response 3. for moderators: do not remove but respond with exactly one sentence "bad question, to be ignored" (*), remove any other response that may appear, and freeze the question, thus preventing further edits/comments/answers/solutions. Offenders should not be rewarded! They don't deserve a second of our attention. :) (*) make this a link to a lengthy page that explains what good and bad questions are
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
But the main problem is not that people ignore the instructions, they do not bother to read them. And far too many just do not know how to ask a question. One of the most common questions is "It does not work, please fix it". So however hard Chris and the team work to make it easy to post a question, add full details and nice neatly formatted code, people will still do what they think is enough.
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My policy would be strict: 1. give clear, concise, unambiguous instructions; improve them when possible. 2. for all: ignore who ignores the instructions, not even a lengthy "Bad question..." response 3. for moderators: do not remove but respond with exactly one sentence "bad question, to be ignored" (*), remove any other response that may appear, and freeze the question, thus preventing further edits/comments/answers/solutions. Offenders should not be rewarded! They don't deserve a second of our attention. :) (*) make this a link to a lengthy page that explains what good and bad questions are
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
I sympathize, but that policy would also result in a lot of "CP sucks" talk, similar to what some of us think of SO.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
But the main problem is not that people ignore the instructions, they do not bother to read them. And far too many just do not know how to ask a question. One of the most common questions is "It does not work, please fix it". So however hard Chris and the team work to make it easy to post a question, add full details and nice neatly formatted code, people will still do what they think is enough.
And then we ignore them, as there is no alternative.
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
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My policy would be strict: 1. give clear, concise, unambiguous instructions; improve them when possible. 2. for all: ignore who ignores the instructions, not even a lengthy "Bad question..." response 3. for moderators: do not remove but respond with exactly one sentence "bad question, to be ignored" (*), remove any other response that may appear, and freeze the question, thus preventing further edits/comments/answers/solutions. Offenders should not be rewarded! They don't deserve a second of our attention. :) (*) make this a link to a lengthy page that explains what good and bad questions are
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
I don't normally disagree with you, but in this case I think I have to. Many first time posters are lucky to find the right place to post, much less actually read instructions when they get there. And they are often panicking - they have a deadline for their homework and no idea at all how to proceed: they can't find code which does exactly what the question requires and that'#s all they can think of doing. So they find us: a friendly looking bunch who'll do the homework for them! So they dump the question and ... it won't let them post it without something in the "What I done" bit. So they dump anything they can find in that. And they get nothing back except a closed "Not a question". That doesn't help them, doesn't help the site - instead it gets someone who thinks we are all w*nk*rs and bad mouths CP. Just as happens with SO: because the attitude there is "I'm wonderful, newbies should know better". As the text says:
Quote:
Let's work to help developers, not make them feel stupid.
And while that's damn difficult sometimes - I told one poster today that I wasn't talking to him any more because I'd be rude if I did - some of them do respond well, and need some constructive discourse to get them started. Closing the question doesn't allow for that.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote:
terminally lazy
A subconscious pun? I caught it right away because of timesharing systems. Two dinosaurs walk into a pub... :-D
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Subconscious indeed ... :-D
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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And then we ignore them, as there is no alternative.
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
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well, as Chris says, we should try to help everybody, even those who appear to be useless or lazy. At the very least we can tell them why they are not getting the answer they expect.
I will stimulate initiative, creativity, curiosity, and learning in general; I will not reward lazyness. If that doesn't fit this site, then good luck to you all. :)
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
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I will stimulate initiative, creativity, curiosity, and learning in general; I will not reward lazyness. If that doesn't fit this site, then good luck to you all. :)
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
I agree with you, Luc. My philosophy is to help everyone who needs help, but I do ask that those who need help take the time to think, even briefly, what they are asking for. If you try, but can't frame a question perfectly that's fine: we can work it out and (in a perfect world) rephrase the question for you. If you come in, yell something incomprehensible, and then ignore requests to clarify your question, then no, we can't help. You've made it clear you're not interested in participating, in helping us help you, so even if we help that help may not actually even be read.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Lots of QA questions explain a problem, then under "What I have tried:" they just repeat the same description. Suggestion is: replace "What I have tried:" by something more specific that better matches what we want to see there, e.g.
"What I have tried after the problem occurred:"
"My first attempts to solve the problem:"Luc Pattyn [My Articles] If you can't find it on YouTube try TikTok...
I think we're at the point where we need moderators. Not to simply delete questions, but to rephrase where the phrasing is bad (though the person tried), to make the title more direct, where the person was too absorbed in their own pain to realise others can't read their mind, to give a thumbs up to good questions, and then, ultimately, to remove the questions posted without any care at all. Who's up for being a moderator?
cheers Chris Maunder
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I think we're at the point where we need moderators. Not to simply delete questions, but to rephrase where the phrasing is bad (though the person tried), to make the title more direct, where the person was too absorbed in their own pain to realise others can't read their mind, to give a thumbs up to good questions, and then, ultimately, to remove the questions posted without any care at all. Who's up for being a moderator?
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
Who's up for being a moderator?
I think the ones that would do it, already do it. I personally have not done moderation / edition to the Q&A regularly for quite a while, mainly for two reasons... 1) It is damned time consuming and frustrating. The big part of questions needing such moderation / help are most repetitions or questions that could get found relatively easy with a quick search. I know you used the
the phrasing is bad (though the person tried)but even though it is tiring once you do the same for weeks 2) The enquirer's culture has been getting the wrong direction for a while. There are still people willing to try and to learn yes, but the biggest part are just plain lazy. They want us to read their minds (because to understand the text of the question is almost impossible) and give them a ready to go solution just to copy+paste and carry on until one hour / one day later when they struck with the next "problem". Additionally, when you try to clarify things or you tell them "this is not going to work" the % of answers like "go and f... yourself", "if you don't know how to do it, shut up" and many other disrepectful answers in the like has increased a lot. TL,DR; I know that the main goal of the site is to share knowledge and help newbies, but when you realize that most of the ones you are trying to teach actually doesn't want to learn, just a quick fix for his problem... that is annoying and demoralizing.M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
