These doctors have my sympathy! The number of unvaccinated sunshines is unbelievable!
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75 Doctors from Florida Hospitals Walk Out in Protest of Unvaccinated Patients: 'We Are Exhausted'[^]
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
I second that too... Here in Germany at the beginning all screaming out loud when we got less delivered as it was written in the contracts and now... there are doctors that are having to throw vaccines away because of expiration dates. At least there have been a step in the proper direction, if people go on vacation to a "hot spot" and get the disease and can't work once back home, they won't get paid the "sick leave", but if they need to go to the hospital, then it is covered as usual. If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I second that too... Here in Germany at the beginning all screaming out loud when we got less delivered as it was written in the contracts and now... there are doctors that are having to throw vaccines away because of expiration dates. At least there have been a step in the proper direction, if people go on vacation to a "hot spot" and get the disease and can't work once back home, they won't get paid the "sick leave", but if they need to go to the hospital, then it is covered as usual. If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
One one level, I think that is a very good idea. On another, you'd have a lot of "what-about-ism": What about people who refuse to stop smoking, and get lung cancer/heart attacks/strokes? What about obese people who refuse to lose weight, and get diabetes/heart attacks? Etc. One problem with universal health insurance is that there is no "moral hazard" - they are required to treat you even if your illness is manifestly due to your negligence. Don't try that with your car theft insurance!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I second that too... Here in Germany at the beginning all screaming out loud when we got less delivered as it was written in the contracts and now... there are doctors that are having to throw vaccines away because of expiration dates. At least there have been a step in the proper direction, if people go on vacation to a "hot spot" and get the disease and can't work once back home, they won't get paid the "sick leave", but if they need to go to the hospital, then it is covered as usual. If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
I sympathize with that feeling. But...
Nelek wrote:
If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
that would be a very dark path to walk down. Where would you stop if you start something like that? How about athletes? Should they also pay for their accidents? Smokers, drinkers and drug addicts shouldn't even be mentioned. In Thuringia they started with drop in vaccinations in the evenings which was quite successful. They had found out that a lot of people didn't get time off their jobs to get vaccinated. They also caught a lot of people that are unable to keep appointments for whatever reason. Then you also have a lot of people that are afraid to get vaccinated. I'm not angry with them. I'm angry with those people spreading the fear.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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75 Doctors from Florida Hospitals Walk Out in Protest of Unvaccinated Patients: 'We Are Exhausted'[^]
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
Quote:
Chapin said that it can be frustrating to treat patients who could have avoided getting sick
But that's 90% of their patients anyways, regardless of Covid. :doh:
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75 Doctors from Florida Hospitals Walk Out in Protest of Unvaccinated Patients: 'We Are Exhausted'[^]
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
From the article
Early in the morning before the start of their shifts, the doctors briefly stood outside and spoke against the high number of people in the Palm Beach area who refuse to get vaccinated.
Misleading headline.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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75 Doctors from Florida Hospitals Walk Out in Protest of Unvaccinated Patients: 'We Are Exhausted'[^]
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
At the height of the pandemic, when vaccines were not yet available and so nobody was vaccinated, they somehow managed to cope. Now as the majority (?) of people are vaccinated among the population at large, there should be fewer people showing up at hospitals (and numbers show that's the case, we haven't surpassed any prior peak). And now, with a smaller workload, they can't handle it?
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Nelek wrote:
If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
One one level, I think that is a very good idea. On another, you'd have a lot of "what-about-ism": What about people who refuse to stop smoking, and get lung cancer/heart attacks/strokes? What about obese people who refuse to lose weight, and get diabetes/heart attacks? Etc. One problem with universal health insurance is that there is no "moral hazard" - they are required to treat you even if your illness is manifestly due to your negligence. Don't try that with your car theft insurance!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
What about people who refuse to stop smoking, and get lung cancer/heart attacks/strokes?
I have been smoker (heavy one) and I would say the same about it. But as I can't... no problem. :) It is more due to the frustration when I see people acting like they act than the fact I would actually force that.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I sympathize with that feeling. But...
Nelek wrote:
If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
that would be a very dark path to walk down. Where would you stop if you start something like that? How about athletes? Should they also pay for their accidents? Smokers, drinkers and drug addicts shouldn't even be mentioned. In Thuringia they started with drop in vaccinations in the evenings which was quite successful. They had found out that a lot of people didn't get time off their jobs to get vaccinated. They also caught a lot of people that are unable to keep appointments for whatever reason. Then you also have a lot of people that are afraid to get vaccinated. I'm not angry with them. I'm angry with those people spreading the fear.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
I sympathize with that feeling. But...
The but is actually something I would say too. It is more frustration when I see people acting like they do than I would actually force it, exactly for the reasons you say. But I think that if more people said something like that loud, it could make a bit of effect on those :sunshine:'s There are some people that :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :omg: :omg: :omg: :~:~:~ :doh: :doh: :doh: X| X| X| :mad::mad::mad:
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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At the height of the pandemic, when vaccines were not yet available and so nobody was vaccinated, they somehow managed to cope. Now as the majority (?) of people are vaccinated among the population at large, there should be fewer people showing up at hospitals (and numbers show that's the case, we haven't surpassed any prior peak). And now, with a smaller workload, they can't handle it?
Delta is a different virus in terms of clinical behavior. People get sicker quicker, younger people are dying. "they can't handle it?" -- your lack of empathy for people working flat out month after month to save lives is noted. Many were burned out before Delta.
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I second that too... Here in Germany at the beginning all screaming out loud when we got less delivered as it was written in the contracts and now... there are doctors that are having to throw vaccines away because of expiration dates. At least there have been a step in the proper direction, if people go on vacation to a "hot spot" and get the disease and can't work once back home, they won't get paid the "sick leave", but if they need to go to the hospital, then it is covered as usual. If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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From the article
Early in the morning before the start of their shifts, the doctors briefly stood outside and spoke against the high number of people in the Palm Beach area who refuse to get vaccinated.
Misleading headline.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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Delta is a different virus in terms of clinical behavior. People get sicker quicker, younger people are dying. "they can't handle it?" -- your lack of empathy for people working flat out month after month to save lives is noted. Many were burned out before Delta.
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It's not that they don't have my empathy, it's that the way it's being reported doesn't add up. That's all I'm pointing out.
The number of new cases each day is actually higher in Florida now than it was during any of the previous surges, almost double the daily case rate during the second-most-recent surge (Jan. 2021). So, it actually does add up, just fine.
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The number of new cases each day is actually higher in Florida now than it was during any of the previous surges, almost double the daily case rate during the second-most-recent surge (Jan. 2021). So, it actually does add up, just fine.
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Nelek wrote:
If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
One one level, I think that is a very good idea. On another, you'd have a lot of "what-about-ism": What about people who refuse to stop smoking, and get lung cancer/heart attacks/strokes? What about obese people who refuse to lose weight, and get diabetes/heart attacks? Etc. One problem with universal health insurance is that there is no "moral hazard" - they are required to treat you even if your illness is manifestly due to your negligence. Don't try that with your car theft insurance!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I sympathize with that feeling. But...
Nelek wrote:
If I could decide.... everyone that could (not all can) be vaccinated and decide not to do it, they should pay their hospital fees on their own if they got it.
that would be a very dark path to walk down. Where would you stop if you start something like that? How about athletes? Should they also pay for their accidents? Smokers, drinkers and drug addicts shouldn't even be mentioned. In Thuringia they started with drop in vaccinations in the evenings which was quite successful. They had found out that a lot of people didn't get time off their jobs to get vaccinated. They also caught a lot of people that are unable to keep appointments for whatever reason. Then you also have a lot of people that are afraid to get vaccinated. I'm not angry with them. I'm angry with those people spreading the fear.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Slight detail to have left out from the report, wouldn't you agree? That is what I'm complaining about. If news stories don't present all the facts in proper context, they can mislead readers into coming to the wrong conclusions.
It probably also helps to be clear on definitions. The definition of "case" has not always been the same. E.g. a person with symptoms seeking medical help for those symptoms or a person with a positive test?
Quote:
If news stories don't present all the facts in proper context
Absolute Risk Reduction(ARR) and Relative Risk Reduction(RRR) being a good example of this.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens