HTML de-bloater
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basementman wrote: strip out all of the unnecessary spaces and tabs :omg: Just don't do that with the copy you're going to be working on!!! Also, IMHO with computer-generated HTML, it's all those extra <font> tags that really hog space. Reduce them to only the necessary ones, and you've cut the file's size to ¼ the size. I guess I'm a hardcore programmer - I never use HTML designers, and I always head straight for the SQL view in the MS Access query designer.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma GandhiWe either hand code the HTML or generate the HTML based on hand-coded templates. You should be using CSS rather than font tags anyway. As far the the space stripper goes, we run it against code that is being migrated out to production servers. Also, it allows you to specify a source dir and output dir so that you don't overwrite your development copy. onwards and upwards...
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Short question: Does anybody know of a good HTML debloater that can strip useless HTML code? Long reason: I happen to be a Frontpage fan. I'm rewriting my site from scratch using FP, and the only gripe I have with it is that it produces incredibly bloated HTML code. It doesn't rub well with those on dialup, like me. On a related note: Following CP advice, I decided to try out Dreamweaver MX. I have 25 more days to go before the trial version expires and it can prove to me that it doesn't suck. So far, it's losing - badly. If I can't get my hands on a debloater, I'll have to do it by hand. X| TIA,
Vikram. ----------------------------- My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.Why do I use bloated Word generated HTML you ask?!?!?! I get most of these files form a computer-challenged person, whom only knows how to open MSWord, and email them to me. The person want to be able to update the docs every few months.... X| any suggestions?
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We either hand code the HTML or generate the HTML based on hand-coded templates. You should be using CSS rather than font tags anyway. As far the the space stripper goes, we run it against code that is being migrated out to production servers. Also, it allows you to specify a source dir and output dir so that you don't overwrite your development copy. onwards and upwards...
basementman wrote: You should be using CSS rather than font tags anyway That's the other thing - many WYSIWYG editors don't even have CSS support, or if they do, they put all the styles on the page, rather than in a seperate file. This makes the user have to download the whole style def every time they go to a new page.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi -
Ya serious. I never could make those WYSIWYG editors work. And I've never ever ever seen a "generated" page that's even remotely readable. TextPad is the way to go. J
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant."
I edit the outbound TCP/IP packets in realtime with a binary editor (that's why my web page lags a bit sometimes). ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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I do all my HTML "code" by hand. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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I edit the outbound TCP/IP packets in realtime with a binary editor (that's why my web page lags a bit sometimes). ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I edit the outbound TCP/IP packets in realtime with a binary editor (that's why my web page lags a bit sometimes). :-D:-D:-D:-D You must have a super fast editor to calculate CRC. Regards, Venet. Donec eris felix, multos numerabis amicos.
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Short question: Does anybody know of a good HTML debloater that can strip useless HTML code? Long reason: I happen to be a Frontpage fan. I'm rewriting my site from scratch using FP, and the only gripe I have with it is that it produces incredibly bloated HTML code. It doesn't rub well with those on dialup, like me. On a related note: Following CP advice, I decided to try out Dreamweaver MX. I have 25 more days to go before the trial version expires and it can prove to me that it doesn't suck. So far, it's losing - badly. If I can't get my hands on a debloater, I'll have to do it by hand. X| TIA,
Vikram. ----------------------------- My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking. -
You want a HTML optimiser? Something that looks at your code and goes "those tags are unnecesary, strip them out"? I don't think beyond the most basic level that exists or is possible. If it were do you think I would spend days doing HTML templates with CSS and what not. I would rather use FP, produce a TABLE layout and have HTML Optimiser go and re-write it all nicely for me. :) You do get tools to rip out all the tags Office puts into HTML. Not sure if you get the same thing for the crap that FP outputs, but I doubt it as it is not a simple case like Office HTML. Learn HTML and code by hand, only way you will produce clean code at this present point. Dreamweaver is getting there, but no cigar yet.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRobert Edward Caldecott wrote: My father-in-law calls yer man bits "weasels"
Paul Watson wrote: Learn HTML and code by hand All good advice as long as you don't want to use the ASP.NET web controls. <dark looks in the direction of Redmond> cheers, Chris Maunder
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I edit the outbound TCP/IP packets in realtime with a binary editor (that's why my web page lags a bit sometimes). ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
I find you can cut down on that lag by moving the de-bloatification code to firmware. I reprogrammed an old toaster of mine to do it for me. Keep up with the times, Johnny. :cool: J
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant."
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Short question: Does anybody know of a good HTML debloater that can strip useless HTML code? Long reason: I happen to be a Frontpage fan. I'm rewriting my site from scratch using FP, and the only gripe I have with it is that it produces incredibly bloated HTML code. It doesn't rub well with those on dialup, like me. On a related note: Following CP advice, I decided to try out Dreamweaver MX. I have 25 more days to go before the trial version expires and it can prove to me that it doesn't suck. So far, it's losing - badly. If I can't get my hands on a debloater, I'll have to do it by hand. X| TIA,
Vikram. ----------------------------- My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.I'm like alot of the others and use Notepad. I use the following tool to trim whitespace and such after my page is working properly: http://www.serpik.com/ahc/ Just make sure you keep master copies. My 20 favorite films:
http://www.ymdb.com/user_top20_view.asp?usersid=8912 -
Paul Watson wrote: Learn HTML and code by hand All good advice as long as you don't want to use the ASP.NET web controls. <dark looks in the direction of Redmond> cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: All good advice as long as you don't want to use the ASP.NET web controls That's why ASP.NET support in Dreamweaver is almost a joke. Dreamweaver is supposed to output clean HTML code...which it does. But ASP.NET goes in and screws it all up. :( I personally hate the ASP.NET controls. But I use them anyway...
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
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I'm like alot of the others and use Notepad. I use the following tool to trim whitespace and such after my page is working properly: http://www.serpik.com/ahc/ Just make sure you keep master copies. My 20 favorite films:
http://www.ymdb.com/user_top20_view.asp?usersid=8912OOH! The Manchurian Candidate! Good one! ;-)
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basementman wrote: strip out all of the unnecessary spaces and tabs :omg: Just don't do that with the copy you're going to be working on!!! Also, IMHO with computer-generated HTML, it's all those extra <font> tags that really hog space. Reduce them to only the necessary ones, and you've cut the file's size to ¼ the size. I guess I'm a hardcore programmer - I never use HTML designers, and I always head straight for the SQL view in the MS Access query designer.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhijdunlap wrote: Also, IMHO with computer-generated HTML, it's all those extra <font> tags that really hog space. Reduce them to only the necessary ones, and you've cut the file's size to ¼ the size. :omg: You use font tags? In the name of God I command you to stop! Go learn CSS!
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
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You want a HTML optimiser? Something that looks at your code and goes "those tags are unnecesary, strip them out"? I don't think beyond the most basic level that exists or is possible. If it were do you think I would spend days doing HTML templates with CSS and what not. I would rather use FP, produce a TABLE layout and have HTML Optimiser go and re-write it all nicely for me. :) You do get tools to rip out all the tags Office puts into HTML. Not sure if you get the same thing for the crap that FP outputs, but I doubt it as it is not a simple case like Office HTML. Learn HTML and code by hand, only way you will produce clean code at this present point. Dreamweaver is getting there, but no cigar yet.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRobert Edward Caldecott wrote: My father-in-law calls yer man bits "weasels"
Well if you could get a browser to render it and then write it out to a file, this way it would be "reinterpeting" the page, and the result would be optimized, becuase it wouldn't be putting a font tag after everyletter, unless the font kept changing. -Steven "the yellow dart" Hicks
CPA
CodeProjectAddict
Actual Linux Penguins were harmed in the creation of this message.
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Well if you could get a browser to render it and then write it out to a file, this way it would be "reinterpeting" the page, and the result would be optimized, becuase it wouldn't be putting a font tag after everyletter, unless the font kept changing. -Steven "the yellow dart" Hicks
CPA
CodeProjectAddict
Actual Linux Penguins were harmed in the creation of this message.
More tutorials: Ltpb.8m.com: Tutorials |404Browser.com (Download Link)
I am not sure if I am following your logic Steven, could you explain a bit more please?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRobert Edward Caldecott wrote: My father-in-law calls yer man bits "weasels"
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jdunlap wrote: Also, IMHO with computer-generated HTML, it's all those extra <font> tags that really hog space. Reduce them to only the necessary ones, and you've cut the file's size to ¼ the size. :omg: You use font tags? In the name of God I command you to stop! Go learn CSS!
Hawaian shirts and shorts work too in Summer. People assume you're either a complete nut (in which case not a worthy target) or so damn good you don't need to worry about camouflage... -Anna-Jayne Metcalfe on Paintballing
I don't use font tags, but many WYSIWYG editors do. If I used <font> tags I'd have gone mad by now.* I use a good ol' external CSS file. *Imagine updating 1000+ <font> font tags by hand just because you wanted to change the font size. :omg: X|
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi -
Paul Watson wrote: Learn HTML and code by hand All good advice as long as you don't want to use the ASP.NET web controls. <dark looks in the direction of Redmond> cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris, What problem are you having with the APS.NET controls? I don't like how hard they are to use in the VS.NET designer especially the Panel control but I work around this by using Tables to control my layout. The controls themselves appear to render just fine although I've seen some problem with them rendering against NS 4.x. but then they would also have problems rendering against IE 4.x
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I am not sure if I am following your logic Steven, could you explain a bit more please?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRobert Edward Caldecott wrote: My father-in-law calls yer man bits "weasels"
Well the browser translates the HTML "code" into something visual it could regenerate what was translated and displayed back into code (which would be smaller, and not resulting in <font color="blue">h</font>he<font color="black">ll</font>o world). -Steven "the yellow dart" Hicks
CPA
CodeProjectAddict
Actual Linux Penguins were harmed in the creation of this message.
More tutorials: Ltpb.8m.com: Tutorials |404Browser.com (Download Link)
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Well the browser translates the HTML "code" into something visual it could regenerate what was translated and displayed back into code (which would be smaller, and not resulting in <font color="blue">h</font>he<font color="black">ll</font>o world). -Steven "the yellow dart" Hicks
CPA
CodeProjectAddict
Actual Linux Penguins were harmed in the creation of this message.
More tutorials: Ltpb.8m.com: Tutorials |404Browser.com (Download Link)
I hear what you are saying. When IE parses the HTML document it must convert
style="color: red"into something which Windows can understand and display. Also I assume it builds up a "tree" of the code. Now, it would be nice to think IE optimises that tree, detects redudnant styles and bits and excludes them. But does it? Also if you have ever used the DOM in IE to access the innerHTML property of an element you will see the pure and utter tripe that IE returns. It even takes wonderfully coded HTML and spits out rubbish (not knocking Chris at all but go to the submission wizard and using the nice new WYSIWYG editor put in some good HTML. Then swap to WYSIWYG view, then swap back to HTML view... You see what it does? Uppercases elements, rips out quotes, puts in FONT tags and what not. That is IE doing it! Shocking.) Redundant tags are fine, even I could probably write a parser that figured out redundant tags. It is when someone uses a TABLE instead of a DIV or a SPAN instead of a LABEL that it must become damned hard to write an optimiser. Also how does an optimiser "see" what the developer is trying to produce and then re-write the code to make it happen? Really, I don't think currently that can be done.Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRobert Edward Caldecott wrote: My father-in-law calls yer man bits "weasels"
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OOH! The Manchurian Candidate! Good one! ;-)
The scene where the GIs are brainwashed to think they're in New Jersey is one of my favorite scenes of any film.
My 20 favorite films:
http://www.ymdb.com/user_top20_view.asp?usersid=8912
