Age Discrimination
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Edward Aymami wrote:
The average programmer/developer switches jobs every 4 years.
My max is five. How is any of what you said age discrimination?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
I am 73. If it were 1 or tw0 or even 5 I could say they picked someone else better suited. But 20 to 25（I've lost count) cannot be anything but age discrimination
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Edward Aymami wrote:
I have spent 3 months looking for a job, and that is my experience.
So your only experience is in looking for a job, not actually holding one? If so, why would you then fault the "HR people" for going with another candidate?
Edward Aymami wrote:
I am looking for a steady job for the next 10 years.
Did you actually say anything of the sort?
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
Every single time. :-O
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Don't be upset if they prefer the experienced people. We old dogs are, albeit slow, more reliable than you brilliant youngsters. :-D
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?" -- Rigoletto
If only that were true. I am a 19-year-old trapped in 73-year-old body :-D
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The fact you got a reply implies you were on a short list; perhaps it's your "interview skills" you have to work on; it's a "sales" job. The whole bit: shirt, shoes, tie, etc.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
Most of the time, I didn't get a chance to interview. :(
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Most of the time, I didn't get a chance to interview. :(
I went for remote (freelance) jobs; age isn't a factor unless they're really into the "we're hip" thing. You play little gigs into longer gigs by outperforming. To me, anything beats the commute.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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If only that were true. I am a 19-year-old trapped in 73-year-old body :-D
Me too, almost :)
Paul Sanders. If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter - Blaise Pascal. Some of my best work is in the undo buffer.
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I am 73. If it were 1 or tw0 or even 5 I could say they picked someone else better suited. But 20 to 25（I've lost count) cannot be anything but age discrimination
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Thanks for that. My competence is pretty damn good!
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Edward Aymami wrote:
I have spent 3 months looking for a job, and that is my experience.
So your only experience is in looking for a job, not actually holding one? If so, why would you then fault the "HR people" for going with another candidate?
Edward Aymami wrote:
I am looking for a steady job for the next 10 years.
Did you actually say anything of the sort?
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
I have 40+ years of having a job! But thanks for asking.
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I went for remote (freelance) jobs; age isn't a factor unless they're really into the "we're hip" thing. You play little gigs into longer gigs by outperforming. To me, anything beats the commute.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
I agree with you. :)
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Age Discrimination is rampant in the industry. I have spent 3 months looking for a job, and that is my experience. Usual reply from HR people is "While your qualifications are impressive, we have decided to go with another candidate.":mad: I am looking for a steady job for the next 10 years. The average programmer/developer switches jobs every 4 years.
Edward Aymami wrote:
I am looking for a steady job for the next 10 years. The average programmer/developer switches jobs every 4 years.
I've never been a job hopper - I tend to grow roots and stay wherever I am. That being said, I've stayed at my first two jobs, I believe, roughly 6 years each - both companies were eventually acquired by bigger fish and shortly thereafter (after some "transition" period) ended up shutting down our local office (both times). I'm currently on my next job after that (still only the third of my entire career), after 15 years, and while retirement is on my mind (though it still seems distant), I don't see myself looking for anything else in the meantime. I would not want to work with job hoppers.
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Age Discrimination is rampant in the industry. I have spent 3 months looking for a job, and that is my experience. Usual reply from HR people is "While your qualifications are impressive, we have decided to go with another candidate.":mad: I am looking for a steady job for the next 10 years. The average programmer/developer switches jobs every 4 years.
I know you want a steady job, but have you considered consultant work? At least then you can work as you desire, especially if you decide to retire at some point. You could try Upwork, which takes a cut but guarantees payment.
Bond Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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Age Discrimination is rampant in the industry. I have spent 3 months looking for a job, and that is my experience. Usual reply from HR people is "While your qualifications are impressive, we have decided to go with another candidate.":mad: I am looking for a steady job for the next 10 years. The average programmer/developer switches jobs every 4 years.
It's true. I clash with HR on things like this quite often. For us, it's because HR doesn't know anything about technical skills we require.. so they pick profiles based on overly simplistic criteria instead. Age, distance, keywords they recognize in the resume.. stuff like that. It's a retarded system, all in all.
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Thanks for that. My competence is pretty damn good!
I can't really judge. I can also claim I am a great swimmer but in reality I could be not. I am not saying you are lying or are responsible either. I am just saying there is very little information to conclude anything. Of course it is stressing to look for jobs and it can certainly take a while. You could ask why they went with someone else so you can ask that upfront at the next application. Also, you would rarely know exactly what they are looking for so never assume you are the one.
"It is easy to decipher extraterrestrial signals after deciphering Javascript and VB6 themselves.", ISanti[^]
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It's true. I clash with HR on things like this quite often. For us, it's because HR doesn't know anything about technical skills we require.. so they pick profiles based on overly simplistic criteria instead. Age, distance, keywords they recognize in the resume.. stuff like that. It's a retarded system, all in all.
I could not agree with you more!
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I know you want a steady job, but have you considered consultant work? At least then you can work as you desire, especially if you decide to retire at some point. You could try Upwork, which takes a cut but guarantees payment.
Bond Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
Thanks. I have been trying that to, but not the search firms that want me to pay upfront. I will certainly give it a try now.
ed
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Edward Aymami wrote:
I am looking for a steady job for the next 10 years. The average programmer/developer switches jobs every 4 years.
I've never been a job hopper - I tend to grow roots and stay wherever I am. That being said, I've stayed at my first two jobs, I believe, roughly 6 years each - both companies were eventually acquired by bigger fish and shortly thereafter (after some "transition" period) ended up shutting down our local office (both times). I'm currently on my next job after that (still only the third of my entire career), after 15 years, and while retirement is on my mind (though it still seems distant), I don't see myself looking for anything else in the meantime. I would not want to work with job hoppers.
Too true. I have been working for myself since 1983 and have had several partners. I have been working alone since 2003. Having to shut down and find a job due to a lack of ability to compete with larger firms. :(
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Too true. I have been working for myself since 1983 and have had several partners. I have been working alone since 2003. Having to shut down and find a job due to a lack of ability to compete with larger firms. :(
1. How do they know your age? 2. How do they know you're not a "big" firm? I used to "job hop" - never spent longer than 30 months in any one job. Then I found an employer I really got on well with - myself! Been working for myself for 27 years now - and during that time have had contracts lasting 5 - 7 years (usually part-time, running concurrently with others). When going for work, there's no reason for a client to find out how old I am. I put that I have a degree in such-and-such from so-and-so, but no need to put a date. It's not relevant. I list contracts that are relevant to what I'm going for (either technically, or industry, or role) and explain how I gave great value to a client. That "value add" is equally relevant whether it happened last year or 20 years ago. I pick and choose which assignments I list, and don't even necessarily give them in the "right" sequence. Totally truthful, totally tailored to illustrate why the potential client needs me. I'm the "Principal Consultant" for my company, they have no need to know there are zero "junior consultants", accountants, marketing people or cleaners. That's not who they're hiring - they're hiring me and the skills that they need. Have multiple email addresses: sales@..., support@... as well as Eddie@... All route to same inbox but it helps you prioritise your email. They'll just be impressed that they're talking with the head honcho. Again, I'm not hiding anything, but it's simply irrelevant. Go get ISO9001 certified - it's really not that hard once you get the concepts. Have that on your letterhead / business card / website and they'll not believe that you're a one-man band. If / when they actually get to meet you, they'll be even more impressed, because you'll have rocked their expectations :)
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