Buy or Build?
-
That's the fun part! I check and double check everything - even though ATX is supposed to be a standard, not every manufacturer obeys it. I buy cases that have more fan mounting locations than the motherboard can support. I buy motherboards that have more RAM slots than I expect to need. I get a better CPU than anything I run really needs. Overkill is always the order of the day. Recently I had to do some upgrades; I installed a new monitor after breaking an old one ( never attempt to re-assemble a Colt .45 ACP Model 1911 whilst sitting in front of the display ) when a spring-driven part went through it. I wish I'd taken a picture of the quite colorful but useless display afterwards, and had Hunter Biden sell it for me. Anyway, the new display whined constantly about having the wrong resolution set, so I upgraded the video card to one that can handle it. Turns out that my PC can't handle that much data flow, and I have to reduce the setting for it to function at all. Curiously, this card doesn't have an integral fan, and doesn't need one! It works great without extra cooling! I might even keep this one as a file server and build something new. I actually enjoy it, but the learning curve on this job is huge. I've read thousands of pages of equipment manuals during the past week, pored over site plans and design documents, and just acquired today another 15 - 20 thick documents I haven't even unzipped yet. Time is becoming precious - just a trip to the jobsite is a four-hour round trip. I've not heard of Noctua fans; why do you prefer them?
Will Rogers never met me.
Noctua fans are very quiet, move a lot of air per noise/RPM, and last forever. They are overengineered monsters. I don't know a single person that has them that doesn't love them. The only downside is they can get spendy, but it's one of those products where you'll be reminded of where the money went.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
-
Thanks for the suggestion, Mike! I buy all my components from them, but I've never tried the Builder. I'll check it out!
Will Rogers never met me.
I've been building my own since the late 90's, since I cannot get a pre-built unit that has everything I want at a price I'm willing to pay. I built my current desktop a year ago January, and spent 3 months researching before buying. It's not like the 90's where the CPU choice was Intel or AMD, and then pick speed. There are dozens of CPUs, and figuring out which to buy can push one towards insanity. For that reason, try the builder since you have nothing to lose. Crypto mining pushed up demand for GPU, and with that the prices. You'll spend far more than you expect on a decent GPU, but in the end you'll be unhappy if you don't.
-
My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
build all the way.... I have seen so many shortcuts made by Dell, HP, etc I swore never again. The machine I built 10 years ago is still thundering along in my daughter's bedroom. Glancing to my left at my Ryzen 9 desktop server, it's been thundering along on Windows 10 for 4+ years and has never crashed once. Since I suspect you are not building a gaming rig, you just need a good chassis, SSDs, a good power supply and a motherboard perhaps with a built in graphics chip, though I would argue for a standalone.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
-
My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
Here's a system I configured about a month ago. Has 2 options for the processor depending upon what you want to spend. I bought the nVidia 4070 (non ti, saved about $200) video card and have been pretty happy with it. Pick your case (I'm a fan of the Corsair cases as their no fuss water cooling works great with them). https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/Y1P0391S75HS/ref=nav_wishlist_lists_2[^]
-
After HP, Lenovo is the second one I would not buy if I have another possibility. I have had several in my hands (some of them from family / relatives to repair / configure something) and I didn't like it. They might be good machines, but I am not comfortable with them.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
Lenovo is the second one I would not buy
My current system is a 3 y/o lenovo ideacenter tower that I bought on impulse off the shelf locally. I was really disappointed when I pulled the cover...very little room for upgrades/expansion as there are only 2 SATA headers and memory maxes out at 2x8GB! :sigh: The spinner was swapped for SSD immediately and fresh Win10 pro installed. While the system generally performs OK, it starts getting sluggish when available memory drops below 2GB. Debugging some ASP.Net apps is excruciating as it may take up to 10 minutes to startup from a simple edit! (and of course Edit and Continue almost never works, so stop, edit, start, and wait for another 10 minutes! :mad: (sometimes I miss the simplicity of classic ASP!) :laugh: I'm already in the mindset of replacing it now, and leaning towards the build camp after this last experience.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse "Hope is contagious"
-
My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
I used to always build, but on my last machine, I decided to go with a good custom builder. I don't know what country you're in, so I'm not sure what would apply to you, but this is the route I'll probably go next time too (I went with, and would use again, WootWare - wootware.co.za) I won't buy some off-the-shelf junk - companies tend to stuff them with the lowest-spec'd rubbish they can get away with at a price-point, or put totally mediocre hardware in the box and charge $arm + $leg for it (GamersNexus videos cover _a lot_ of these charlatans!). I'd suggest finding a local company which builds based on "loose" specs and which has a good reputation for service, so if something goes wrong during shipping or something fails in the machine, they will help with RMA'ing things. For reference, I spec'd the following for my machine: - latest-gen i9 (11th at the time - 12th came out a month or 2 later... but I couldn't really wait) - 64Gb RAM - board supporting the above, with Wifi & Bluetooth support, either on the board or on a daughter board (ended up going that way) - Liquid cooling - Minimal lighting (but I ended up with more than I originally anticipated, and I kinda like it) - Chose a case that I like, looks-wise and rated online as tough and easy to work with (Phanteks Ethoo EVOLV) - Originally kept my GPU, but then bought a GPU from them - it's a minor installation - One NVME drive, if the overall cost fell within my budget (which it did) Whilst they did suggest an AMD machine for a slightly lower cost, they also didn't shove it down my throat, and respected me when I declined (a good friend of mine had been having an uncommon issue with his AMD that I was afraid I'd have, and I didn't feel like enduring the RMA cycle for a minor price difference - about 1.5% on the entire system) What I got - 11th gen i9 11900KF (can push the clocks - which I'm not - but no igpu - which I don't need) - 64Gb 3600mhx ram (2x32) - Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Elite - Fractal design cooler - The Phanteks case I wanted - Sabrent rocket nvme (which I wouldn't recommend, tbh - tends to overheat in a pcie-4 slot, though the Windows drivers just slow the drive down when it's heating up, so you won't notice in Windows - just the drive will get slow; but under Linux, the drive goes offline...) - later, a Gigabyte Aorus 3070 The experience was great - I had the fun of picking out what I wanted, with the safety of not having to double-check that I hadn't picked anything incompatible. I then got a beautiful, powerful
-
My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
I pretty much always build my own these days. I like being able to control all aspects of the build. About the only time I didn't building my own was when I got an Amiga (loved that machine). Unfortunately, Commadore was run by a bunch of morons so the Amiga didn't survive. In any case, building computers now is much easier than when I built my first computer back in 1978!
-
My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
I'll late to this , but what the heck ... I see buying a PC already built as outsourcing your PC or workstation requirements, versus building your own from parts that you have to research, trust and test to see if you get the performance and reliability that you need. It becomes time consuming, where that time could be spent on actually using the computer to perform your craft. The downside to building your own is that retail parts most times don't match the much higher quality of OEM built parts, like in the old days when you bought a retail hard drive, that drive was sub standard and didn't pass all the tests to be an OEM drive that a corporation would purchase. I've been using Dell Precision workstations since 2011, and have no regrets. I just bought another last year (Dell 5820) and put a 10 core Xeon in it, and one of those NVidia cards RTX-A4000. I don't need gaming speeds, just reliability where I can run the computer for 12 hours straight with no issues, for at least a decade. As far as cost goes, it's almost the same to me, but the little details like not really needing tools to work on it is nice. But I have the computing power to do what you described no problem and really quick. You can call Jose at Dell for a good price if you choose this route. Just PM me for his email or phone number.
If it ain't broke don't fix it Discover my world at jkirkerx.com
-
My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
I built my current desktop machine based on recommendations found in a StackOverflow employee’s blogpost. I posted about this a couple years ago: [The Lounge](https://www.codeproject.com/Messages/5799545/Re-Thinking-of-building-a-new-desktop-computer-for) I’m sure things have changed, but I don’t regret building this machine, and as for hardware compatibility, might as well get advice from someone who’s successfully put the pieces together. Toms hardware is another good resource. Edit: dang it. Today I read an article about MSI’s software keys being stolen. Cheers and good fortune whichever way you go.
Time is the differentiation of eternity devised by man to measure the passage of human events. - Manly P. Hall Mark Just another cog in the wheel
-
Noctua fans are very quiet, move a lot of air per noise/RPM, and last forever. They are overengineered monsters. I don't know a single person that has them that doesn't love them. The only downside is they can get spendy, but it's one of those products where you'll be reminded of where the money went.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
I am pretty happy with my BeQuiet! setup. I haven't got the fans to high speed yet, not even with 3 LoTRO instances, 2 VM Instances, around 15 browser tabs, a couple of office apps, a zoom conference and something else all at once.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
That's the fun part! I check and double check everything - even though ATX is supposed to be a standard, not every manufacturer obeys it. I buy cases that have more fan mounting locations than the motherboard can support. I buy motherboards that have more RAM slots than I expect to need. I get a better CPU than anything I run really needs. Overkill is always the order of the day. Recently I had to do some upgrades; I installed a new monitor after breaking an old one ( never attempt to re-assemble a Colt .45 ACP Model 1911 whilst sitting in front of the display ) when a spring-driven part went through it. I wish I'd taken a picture of the quite colorful but useless display afterwards, and had Hunter Biden sell it for me. Anyway, the new display whined constantly about having the wrong resolution set, so I upgraded the video card to one that can handle it. Turns out that my PC can't handle that much data flow, and I have to reduce the setting for it to function at all. Curiously, this card doesn't have an integral fan, and doesn't need one! It works great without extra cooling! I might even keep this one as a file server and build something new. I actually enjoy it, but the learning curve on this job is huge. I've read thousands of pages of equipment manuals during the past week, pored over site plans and design documents, and just acquired today another 15 - 20 thick documents I haven't even unzipped yet. Time is becoming precious - just a trip to the jobsite is a four-hour round trip. I've not heard of Noctua fans; why do you prefer them?
Will Rogers never met me.
Old but still valid: Thermal Paste Application Techniques | Puget Systems[^] In german, but still to be understood due to the images: be quiet! Pure Base 500 optimales Lüftersetup - Hardware-Helden[^]
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
-
My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
I just faced the exact same problem, and for the first time in 37 years it was cheaper (by more than $200) to buy a full desktop from Dell than it would for me to build my own using the same or similar components, even using the old case, power supply, and video card.
There are no solutions, only trade-offs.
- Thomas SowellA day can really slip by when you're deliberately avoiding what you're supposed to do.
- Calvin (Bill Watterson, Calvin & Hobbes) -
My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
**BUILD** Why ?... **CRAPWARE** Building your own, and paying the ransomware prices to Microsoft for the real deal with real disks and everything, is the single best way to be sure that you are really getting "Clean Windows". My own experience: it's about the only way. Not to mention fifty different reasons for a disk going bad. It happens. (I learned last month)
-
I pretty much always build my own these days. I like being able to control all aspects of the build. About the only time I didn't building my own was when I got an Amiga (loved that machine). Unfortunately, Commadore was run by a bunch of morons so the Amiga didn't survive. In any case, building computers now is much easier than when I built my first computer back in 1978!
'78 eh? Yeah, that was challenging! I had just finished building an Altair 8800 about then, and changed jobs to design hardware and program HP minicomputers. I didn't get around to building systems for myself until IBM set the standard for what we call a PC today. Good times, and so many more choices to make today!
Will Rogers never met me.
-
build all the way.... I have seen so many shortcuts made by Dell, HP, etc I swore never again. The machine I built 10 years ago is still thundering along in my daughter's bedroom. Glancing to my left at my Ryzen 9 desktop server, it's been thundering along on Windows 10 for 4+ years and has never crashed once. Since I suspect you are not building a gaming rig, you just need a good chassis, SSDs, a good power supply and a motherboard perhaps with a built in graphics chip, though I would argue for a standalone.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I configured one last night at Newegg that should last me another ten years, I think - about $3500 though. I may rethink that a bit before I pull the trigger...
Will Rogers never met me.
-
Here's a system I configured about a month ago. Has 2 options for the processor depending upon what you want to spend. I bought the nVidia 4070 (non ti, saved about $200) video card and have been pretty happy with it. Pick your case (I'm a fan of the Corsair cases as their no fuss water cooling works great with them). https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/Y1P0391S75HS/ref=nav_wishlist_lists_2[^]
Nice! Thanks for sharing that. I may want to back off on my 24 core selection of a twelfth-gen i9 processor. They're a bit pricey.
Will Rogers never met me.
-
'78 eh? Yeah, that was challenging! I had just finished building an Altair 8800 about then, and changed jobs to design hardware and program HP minicomputers. I didn't get around to building systems for myself until IBM set the standard for what we call a PC today. Good times, and so many more choices to make today!
Will Rogers never met me.
-
build all the way.... I have seen so many shortcuts made by Dell, HP, etc I swore never again. The machine I built 10 years ago is still thundering along in my daughter's bedroom. Glancing to my left at my Ryzen 9 desktop server, it's been thundering along on Windows 10 for 4+ years and has never crashed once. Since I suspect you are not building a gaming rig, you just need a good chassis, SSDs, a good power supply and a motherboard perhaps with a built in graphics chip, though I would argue for a standalone.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
The machine I built 10 years ago is still thundering along...
I have machines going back probably 20 years. All purchased as is. Added a few things probably to each but nothing significant. And I am certain all of them would run if I just turned them on because I did not move on from any of them because they were failing. I suspect the older ones are VGA and definitely have serial and parallel ports. Probably a modem card. Actually machines even older than that which still worked I got rid of just to free up a bit of space. I actually have 3 CRT monitors that still work too. And a HP Laserjet. But I wouldn't want to try to run any of the games that I play now on those older machines. Although I do still use a soldering iron that is at least 20 years old.
