Gulliver's travels is obscene and banned.
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It's hilarious, in a gallows humour sort of way, to see any country in a region so disposed to overproduction of human beings, condemn any reference to reproductive activity. In my lifetime, the only book ever banned in this nation of supposedly free individuals was penned in that area - the Kama Sutra. It's very sad to see any culture manufacture a supposed sin out of the beautiful act of procreation, and ours, I must admit, is most guilty of that. We wallow in guilt for exposing the body, ostensibly created in the image of God, to the view of others. What a sad inversion of values. To extend this ridiculous taboo to include mere words - and those in a poorly understood foreign language - is a travesty. I weep for the people in your region of the world... as I do for my own. When will they learn that words are only noises in the wind, and that values are borne in the heart?:( There are so many important issues for us to debate - why do we allow such trivial matters to consume so much of our productive time? Swift was a talented author of fantasy, and students at the college level should have the critical facilities to discriminate between porn and art. Leave the matter to their capable hands, and let's not go banning books!
"The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb;
but the Lamb will not get much sleep..."
Lazarus LongRoger Wright wrote: In my lifetime, the only book ever banned in this nation of supposedly free individuals was penned in that area - the Kama Sutra A good point but not entirely true there are other more subtle forms of the suppression of ideas and statements that certain people do not appreciate for one reason or another. The American chains such as Wal Mart and Disney are notorious in the that the ideas they put across and the products they sell must conform to a certain perception of "Family values". In the case of Wal Mart refusing to stock albums by Nirvana and other bands is a famous example, where they wouldn't stock their records until the changed the name of certain songs. Noticably the song "Rape me" and in the UK major book sellers including W.H.Smith ( a major book retailler ) refused to stock American Psycho by Brett Easton Ellis. I know there are a lot of people on this site who take a stand on the "Family values" argument on this site mostly with the consideration of their own children in mind and I'm not trying to start a flame war on family values and if or where certain subject matters should be avaliable to the general public or people who are interested in a particular topic. I am just trying to make the point that each society has it's own restrictions and that those restrictions are enforced just as strictly ine each society. pseudonym67
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: if I to extend my hand of friendship to Pakistan there must be an ulterior motive behind it. So you'd better not trust me. Let's go on with the killing. After all, it makes us happy, right? Why are you provoking conflict in this way? I thought better of you, Vikram....:(
"The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb;
but the Lamb will not get much sleep..."
Lazarus LongRoger Wright wrote: Why are you provoking conflict in this way? I'm *not* provoking conflict, Roger. I was being sarcastic. I just posted what would go on in the average Pakistani's mind. Any Indian who wishes friendship is instantly viewed with distrust. Do you know that killing does make (at least, some) people happy? People are happy their soldiers died (because they're martyrs) and that the enemy's slodiers died (because they are enemies). Roger Wright wrote: I thought better of you, Vikram Sadly, I never thought you'd misunderstand this. Anyway, I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Punjab (the one in Pak, not India) University has banned works by Jonathan Swift because they conatin "sexual connotations", Vikram Seth because he's Indian, Auden because she's Jewish, Rape of the Lock by Pope because it contains an "offesnive" term, and many others. At the college level. Read about it at http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/10lit.htm The funniest part is right at the bottom: Perhaps the most bizarre criticism is of a Sean O'Casey play, The End of the Beginning. The committee quoted a portion from the play: "When the song ended, Darry cocks his ear and listens." Dr Arif underlined the word 'cocks', the daily said. [edit] Alright, I'll be the first to admit I haven't read *all* those works, but it still seems stupid, esp But the general's wife has a different take on the issue. "We have been tolerant for too long," she said in a meeting with academics from the department. [/edit] :laugh: [edit2] Uh, oh! This is turning out into a many-sided flame war, with 1-voting. Three things really: #1. I was not Paki-bashing. I would have scoffed had it been an Indian university too. #2. I did NOT want to start a flame war. #3. I did not vote anybody down (or up, for that matter).[edit2]
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Perhaps the most bizarre criticism is of a Sean O'Casey play Ye all have something against the irish don't ye. Leave Sean alone.. and it's actually Séan [It's the Irish word for John]. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: , Darry cocks his ear and listens Right.. they banned it because of this??? lol... no.. ROTFLMAO.. :laugh: Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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First of all this is a personal decision of an educational institution and a 100% correct decision supported by majority of people. If your difinition of "modern society" is that boys and girls sit together in class room and and and learn such literature; then sorry we are not a "modern society" and are proud of that. I don't know why you people call a society a modern society in which men and women hugging and kissing each other in the public, reading sexual material together in class room and women wearing little dresses....:mad: No we don't want to be "modern". This could be "your" way to judge how much a society is a progressive society not ours. And yes have you ever been to Lahore. It is much safe and better than almost all your cities. See yourself what your own journalist saying in the last two lines of this document[^].
Samrah Saulat Mirza wrote: sexual material This is considered sexual material??? :omg: Ok... I haven't read the article but the Sean O'Casey one that was banned due to the word cocks???? :wtf: is that about??? There is absoloutly nothing sexual in that word in the context in which it is used!!! Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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Note that was heavily coated in sarcasm. And not towards you Vikram Good that you clarified. :) Else I would have flamed you myself. Seriously, I don't believe people don't want to discuss stuff. It's only because of lack of discussion that misunderstandings occur. I'm quite shocked when people admit that their Govt (or University) is suppressing open discussions and knowledge; and then say "this (suppression) *is* what we want".
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Exactly. Im sure most students would like to have the option to study and discuss most things. If on a personal level they have particular objections to a piece of work then thats fine, but at least they are given a chance to decide themselves. It's a shame that the 'we' in 'this is what we want' happens to be the University as I'm sure it doesnt refer to the students. It's more a case of 'this is what you will get'
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Trollslayer wrote: it was explaining what the Hadith is (after explaaining that it existed !). That is equally true of many Christians... so few read and understand the texts they quote. We are so ignorant, despite our pretexts of knowledge. No matter how old we become, there remains, always, so much to learn. Trollslayer wrote: I have even read Gulliver's Travels. I always knew you were a smart lady...:-D
"The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb;
but the Lamb will not get much sleep..."
Lazarus LongRoger Wright wrote: there remains, always, so much to learn. Not to mention relearning the stuff we forgot already pseudonym67
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JohnJ wrote: The action sounds like typical behaviour from a repressive regime, And what about the regime responsible for spreading the fake stories of Jessica ..... :mad:
You are right there. I can't understand why they do those things.. jhaga --------------------------------- I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau, Walden, Conclusion, 1854
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Punjab (the one in Pak, not India) University has banned works by Jonathan Swift because they conatin "sexual connotations", Vikram Seth because he's Indian, Auden because she's Jewish, Rape of the Lock by Pope because it contains an "offesnive" term, and many others. At the college level. Read about it at http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/10lit.htm The funniest part is right at the bottom: Perhaps the most bizarre criticism is of a Sean O'Casey play, The End of the Beginning. The committee quoted a portion from the play: "When the song ended, Darry cocks his ear and listens." Dr Arif underlined the word 'cocks', the daily said. [edit] Alright, I'll be the first to admit I haven't read *all* those works, but it still seems stupid, esp But the general's wife has a different take on the issue. "We have been tolerant for too long," she said in a meeting with academics from the department. [/edit] :laugh: [edit2] Uh, oh! This is turning out into a many-sided flame war, with 1-voting. Three things really: #1. I was not Paki-bashing. I would have scoffed had it been an Indian university too. #2. I did NOT want to start a flame war. #3. I did not vote anybody down (or up, for that matter).[edit2]
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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First of all this is a personal decision of an educational institution and a 100% correct decision supported by majority of people. If your difinition of "modern society" is that boys and girls sit together in class room and and and learn such literature; then sorry we are not a "modern society" and are proud of that. I don't know why you people call a society a modern society in which men and women hugging and kissing each other in the public, reading sexual material together in class room and women wearing little dresses....:mad: No we don't want to be "modern". This could be "your" way to judge how much a society is a progressive society not ours. And yes have you ever been to Lahore. It is much safe and better than almost all your cities. See yourself what your own journalist saying in the last two lines of this document[^].
I don't agree with the decision, as I'm not for censorship, however you make a great point. That being if the majority in a society agrees to ban something, then there is nothing wrong with it. BW "In a world full of people, only some want to fly,Isn't that crazy?" - Seal
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Perhaps the most bizarre criticism is of a Sean O'Casey play Ye all have something against the irish don't ye. Leave Sean alone.. and it's actually Séan [It's the Irish word for John]. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: , Darry cocks his ear and listens Right.. they banned it because of this??? lol... no.. ROTFLMAO.. :laugh: Regards, Brian Dela :-)
Brian Delahunty wrote: Darry cocks his ear Absolutely they banned it, Brian, and well they should. Man what a perverse thing to do. :rolleyes: BW "In a world full of people, only some want to fly,Isn't that crazy?" - Seal
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: If somebody does it, SO WHAT? Well said, yes, rape is not "encouraged" in India, but if somebody is doing it SO WHAT Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Now look here, you want an Indo-Pak flame war, this is not the place. Go to the Soapbox, crib against India, and mail me the link so I can join issue. This flame war is started by you and only by you. You are an Indian and you posted something against Pakistan here, and so it is better that you yourself take it away towards soapbox. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: The basic difference is that you're a theocratic state and religious fanatics; we're secular. Ahm..no we are not culturally similar. We daily slaughter cows, our national dresses are different than that of India. Alcohol is prohibitted e.t.c e.t.c Vikram Punathambekar wrote: We *don't* have girls going about in small dresses. We *don't* condone public mouth to mouth kissing. We *don't* promote hugging in public. Your media is portraying everything you said above. Have you ever seen a Bollywood film (which seems not in your case...aHem ||)
Fuck off you worthless cunt. When you wankers feel secure enough in your manhood that you don't have to beat your women and cover them up in uncomfortable and ugly clothing then, and only then can you come out and make fun of how other cultures work. Go back to kissing men and beating your women, it will make you feel like the man you can never be. You are not protecting your women, you are opressing them as you (I mean all Paki males when I say this) fear what they can achieve without you mysoginistic bunch of twats. Michael Martin Australia "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Well said, yes, rape is not "encouraged" in India, but if somebody is doing it SO WHAT Now, do you believe that wearing small dresses, kissing in public and hugging are equal to rape? If you do, I can only marvel at your naivety.
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Read my reply below yours. Michael Martin Australia "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Vikram Punathambekar wrote: Perhaps the most bizarre criticism is of a Sean O'Casey play Ye all have something against the irish don't ye. Leave Sean alone.. and it's actually Séan [It's the Irish word for John]. Vikram Punathambekar wrote: , Darry cocks his ear and listens Right.. they banned it because of this??? lol... no.. ROTFLMAO.. :laugh: Regards, Brian Dela :-)
Brian Delahunty wrote: Ye all have something against the irish don't ye [humor]No, it wasn't me! :points his finger: It was the Pakis. :laugh: [/humor]
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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5 ! I agree because of an odd situation I have been in. I am not a religious person, yet I have been in the situation of explaining some fairly basic aspects of Islam to a few muslim friends (from Pakistan as it happens) because their religious teaching consists of memorising the Quran, without having to understand a single word as long as they could make the right sounds. In that particular instance, it was explaining what the Hadith is (after explaaining that it existed !). I learned a bit about Islam because I have had a number of muslim friends and lived in multicultured areas, so it seemed reasonable to understand people. I have even read Gulliver's Travels. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote: I have even read Gulliver's Travels. Really? ;P ROTFLMAO !
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Fuck off you worthless cunt. When you wankers feel secure enough in your manhood that you don't have to beat your women and cover them up in uncomfortable and ugly clothing then, and only then can you come out and make fun of how other cultures work. Go back to kissing men and beating your women, it will make you feel like the man you can never be. You are not protecting your women, you are opressing them as you (I mean all Paki males when I say this) fear what they can achieve without you mysoginistic bunch of twats. Michael Martin Australia "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Uh, oh! Michael, you seem to be more anti-Pakistan than any Indian I've met. While *I agree* with most of what you say, I wouldn't put it across that way- maybe I'm too polite, or maybe I don't feel that way- I just don't know.
But I'm glad you're on my side. :-D
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Fuck off you worthless cunt. When you wankers feel secure enough in your manhood that you don't have to beat your women and cover them up in uncomfortable and ugly clothing then, and only then can you come out and make fun of how other cultures work. Go back to kissing men and beating your women, it will make you feel like the man you can never be. You are not protecting your women, you are opressing them as you (I mean all Paki males when I say this) fear what they can achieve without you mysoginistic bunch of twats. Michael Martin Australia "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: mysoginistic I didn't know that was a word!:-D I guess that makes me philogynistic.
"The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb;
but the Lamb will not get much sleep..."
Lazarus Long -
I think Roger was talking about the Kama Sutra being banned in the UK. The tigress is here :-D
The US, actually.:)
"The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb;
but the Lamb will not get much sleep..."
Lazarus Long -
Roger Wright wrote: In my lifetime, the only book ever banned in this nation of supposedly free individuals was penned in that area - the Kama Sutra A good point but not entirely true there are other more subtle forms of the suppression of ideas and statements that certain people do not appreciate for one reason or another. The American chains such as Wal Mart and Disney are notorious in the that the ideas they put across and the products they sell must conform to a certain perception of "Family values". In the case of Wal Mart refusing to stock albums by Nirvana and other bands is a famous example, where they wouldn't stock their records until the changed the name of certain songs. Noticably the song "Rape me" and in the UK major book sellers including W.H.Smith ( a major book retailler ) refused to stock American Psycho by Brett Easton Ellis. I know there are a lot of people on this site who take a stand on the "Family values" argument on this site mostly with the consideration of their own children in mind and I'm not trying to start a flame war on family values and if or where certain subject matters should be avaliable to the general public or people who are interested in a particular topic. I am just trying to make the point that each society has it's own restrictions and that those restrictions are enforced just as strictly ine each society. pseudonym67
pseudonym67 wrote: The American chains such as Wal Mart and Disney are notorious in the that the ideas they put across and the products they sell must conform to a certain perception of "Family values". True, and that's a business decision they are entitled to make. Governments, however, should not have that authority as it so easily can degenerate into the sort of mind control exhibited by the former USSR. Excellent examples, though.
"The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb;
but the Lamb will not get much sleep..."
Lazarus Long -
Brian Delahunty wrote: Ye all have something against the irish don't ye [humor]No, it wasn't me! :points his finger: It was the Pakis. :laugh: [/humor]
Vikram.
My soon-to-be-updated site KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
:laugh: Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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Michael Martin wrote: mysoginistic I didn't know that was a word!:-D I guess that makes me philogynistic.
"The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb;
but the Lamb will not get much sleep..."
Lazarus LongRoger Wright wrote: I didn't know that was a word! :-D I guess that makes me philogynistic. Yes, I'm virtually a thesaurus come dictionary which I use so poetically. ;P Michael Martin Australia "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002