Did David Kelly really kill himself?
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I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
Martin Marvinski wrote: Did David Kelly really kill himself? I haven't heard to much of the story yet since I was out all day, but I am interested on what stories come out. Looking back at history and cover-ups, there seems to be printed articles that are "single-bullet theory" types(meaning they are fed to the public to influence opinion even though the facts are shaky) and then the real stories that go against the single bullet theory stories. So far, I bet, we are only reading the single bullet theory stories, if it is a cover-up. I will certainly track this story, though. It is hard to imagine that some successfull person would just end their life like that. :-D:|:suss: Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Dream as if you'll live forever; live as if you'll die tomorrow." - James Dean(ISTP) -
I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
Martin Marvinski wrote: I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Currently the press over here are playing the story that he was a quiet man who was dragged into the world of politics against his wishes and was set up as a scapegoat for the current arguements about the claims of Iraq could have used wmds in 45 minutes and who put the claim in the official documents. Most people tend to see the whole arguement as a side issue being argued by the government to divert people away from the real question. Which makes it doubly pointless that someone died because of it. So far as I know no one has suggested foul play of the murder type but the general concencus is that the whole situation is pretty disgusting. Martin Marvinski wrote: This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections? There are already calls from his own party for Blair and others to resign although they are playing for time at the moment by trying to dodge responsibility until the results of a judicial enquiry are made public. Most of the press seem to be of the opinion that Blair his press secretary ( Cambell ) and the current Defense minister ( Hoon ) are in the firing line. With the current mood one if not all three will probably be gone before the next elections, the only real hope they all have of surviving to the next election is if they play for time for so long that the current mood of anger and disgust at the whole situation dies down. But some papers are already saying that this will hang over the government no matter who's in charge for the rest of it's elected period. pseudonym67 Neural Dot Net Articles 1-11 Start Here[^]
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I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
Its difficult to say, but it looks like he was put under enormous pressure and that is why the poor guy took his own life :( Noone should die alone and frightened :(( RIP :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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Its difficult to say, but it looks like he was put under enormous pressure and that is why the poor guy took his own life :( Noone should die alone and frightened :(( RIP :rose: The tigress is here :-D
:rose: pseudonym67 Neural Dot Net Articles 1-11 Start Here[^]
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I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
You mean the pain killers seen aside his body were just to create the impression that he himself cut his veins? :~ Smitha You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true. You may have to work for it, however. -- Richard Bach
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I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
Martin Marvinski wrote: Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? Which assassins? Do you mean sent by Blair? If any assassins were involved, I believe they were sent by Saddam. Blair is incapable to order an execution, he'is too humane for that. Martin Marvinski wrote: Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections? Blair may loose, but if he does than I hope Labor looses also. If Bush will loose the elections (only in democrats' fantasy land), it wont be because of Iraq. After 9/11, majority of americans just want to shoot Arab people, whether evidance were fake or not interests only the media and the democratic nominees.
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I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
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I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
Hi Martin. :)
David Wulff
I laugh so you can't see me cry
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Martin Marvinski wrote: Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? Which assassins? Do you mean sent by Blair? If any assassins were involved, I believe they were sent by Saddam. Blair is incapable to order an execution, he'is too humane for that. Martin Marvinski wrote: Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections? Blair may loose, but if he does than I hope Labor looses also. If Bush will loose the elections (only in democrats' fantasy land), it wont be because of Iraq. After 9/11, majority of americans just want to shoot Arab people, whether evidance were fake or not interests only the media and the democratic nominees.
Felix Gartsman wrote: After 9/11, majority of americans just want to shoot Arab people, whether evidance were fake or not interests only the media and the democratic nominees You're painting a very scary picture of the U.S.
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen -
I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
I think that he was the source of the claim that the government had exaggerated intelligence evidence on Iraq WMD (the BBC has just put out a statement identifying him as the source) and the enormity of what he had done dawned on him and he couldn't handle the pressure. When Daniel Elsberg released the Pentagon Papers to the public (revealing classified information on Vietnam), he lost his career and almost all his friends. It is a big deal for anyone to reveal intelligence-related information that is unfavourable to the government. John Carson
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My view it's most likely they dug up something dirty in his life, and cornered him.
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygenI'm with you on this one. It will probably come out in the next few months. J
"I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees."
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I think that he was the source of the claim that the government had exaggerated intelligence evidence on Iraq WMD (the BBC has just put out a statement identifying him as the source) and the enormity of what he had done dawned on him and he couldn't handle the pressure. When Daniel Elsberg released the Pentagon Papers to the public (revealing classified information on Vietnam), he lost his career and almost all his friends. It is a big deal for anyone to reveal intelligence-related information that is unfavourable to the government. John Carson
John Carson wrote: It is a big deal for anyone to reveal intelligence-related information that is unfavourable to the government. but on the flip side. Some could also look at him as a courageous modern hero. which would be enough for me not to kill myself if I were in his shoes.:| JoeSox still:suss: Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Dream as if you'll live forever; live as if you'll die tomorrow." - James Dean(ISTP) -
John Carson wrote: It is a big deal for anyone to reveal intelligence-related information that is unfavourable to the government. but on the flip side. Some could also look at him as a courageous modern hero. which would be enough for me not to kill myself if I were in his shoes.:| JoeSox still:suss: Later,
JoeSox
www.humanaiproject.org "Dream as if you'll live forever; live as if you'll die tomorrow." - James Dean(ISTP)JoeSox wrote: but on the flip side. Some could also look at him as a courageous modern hero. which would be enough for me not to kill myself if I were in his shoes. I agree. But the pressure on him was nevertheless very intense. Anyone would find it stressful and some people would find it unbearably so. John Carson
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I seriously doubt it. How does this development bode for Tony Blair? Can he be a viable leader among suspicion that assassins had a hand in Kelly's untimely death? The Iraqi conflict seems to share a similarity with the Vietnam War in that it was started under false pretenses, e.g. Vietnam was predicated on the assumption the US ships were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. On the United States side, a group has managed to retrieve several documents that oil executives whom met with Vice President Cheney in April 2001 contained maps of Iraqi oil fields. http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml[^] This sheds serious doubts about the credibility of both leaders. Do you see this as something that should cost both officials their elected positions in the next elections?
Yes, he did kill himself. Why are you so sure he didn't? Are you privy to some top-secret information? For whatever reason, this man took his own life - a tragic situation that could have been avoided - and the BBC, Blair and his cronies should be ashamed. However, suggesting that he was murdered beased on no evidence whatsoever is a little hard to swallow. Still, I realise that some people get a kick of of these crackpot conspiracy theories, but if you saw any of the TV footage of Dr Kelly at the recent tribunal (looking into the governments WMD "evidence") you could see he was a man totally out of his depth. It was rumoured that he could of been threatened with losting his job and his pension rights - this plus being in the public spotlight would be enough to explain why he wanted to kill himself. He also practised a religion that specifically allows for suicide. Looks like this story is being reported completely differently outside of the UK if people really think he was killed. However, I think this is it for Blair - and probably his government. I will be surprised if Blair makes it through the rest of the year as PM - the knives are well and truly out. However, if he goes I think a general election should be called.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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My view it's most likely they dug up something dirty in his life, and cornered him.
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygenMore likely they threatened him with his job and pension rights. Here was a man totally unconmfortable with all the publicity - perhaps this coupled with threats of dismissal was enough to send him over the edge.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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Yes, he did kill himself. Why are you so sure he didn't? Are you privy to some top-secret information? For whatever reason, this man took his own life - a tragic situation that could have been avoided - and the BBC, Blair and his cronies should be ashamed. However, suggesting that he was murdered beased on no evidence whatsoever is a little hard to swallow. Still, I realise that some people get a kick of of these crackpot conspiracy theories, but if you saw any of the TV footage of Dr Kelly at the recent tribunal (looking into the governments WMD "evidence") you could see he was a man totally out of his depth. It was rumoured that he could of been threatened with losting his job and his pension rights - this plus being in the public spotlight would be enough to explain why he wanted to kill himself. He also practised a religion that specifically allows for suicide. Looks like this story is being reported completely differently outside of the UK if people really think he was killed. However, I think this is it for Blair - and probably his government. I will be surprised if Blair makes it through the rest of the year as PM - the knives are well and truly out. However, if he goes I think a general election should be called.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: However, suggesting that he was murdered beased on no evidence whatsoever is a little hard to swallow. Still, I realise that some people get a kick of of these crackpot conspiracy theories, but if you saw any of the TV footage of Dr Kelly at the recent tribunal (looking into the governments WMD "evidence") you could see he was a man totally out of his depth. It was rumoured that he could of been threatened with losting his job and his pension rights - this plus being in the public spotlight would be enough to explain why he wanted to kill himself. He also practised a religion that specifically allows for suicide. Robert, I can't agree with you at all I'm afraid. I don't for one second, believe he was murdered, but I also do not believe he took his own life and it will take a considerable amount of evidence to prove either case to me. The fact is, he was no ordinary man as I realised having read his profile and what others said about him. I simply do not believe that: a) Such a man would take his own life even under what some would call "intolerable pressure" b) Such a man would come up with a more creative method of killing himself. Slashing his wrist and taking some basic painkillers? This man was chief science officer at Britain's Natural Environment Research Council Institute of Virology and eventually head of microbiology at Porton Down! "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
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More likely they threatened him with his job and pension rights. Here was a man totally unconmfortable with all the publicity - perhaps this coupled with threats of dismissal was enough to send him over the edge.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
I believe this is very unlikely. Such a man would be able to walk away from his job and take a Directorship on the board of any one of many companies happy to have such a dedicated professional. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: However, suggesting that he was murdered beased on no evidence whatsoever is a little hard to swallow. Still, I realise that some people get a kick of of these crackpot conspiracy theories, but if you saw any of the TV footage of Dr Kelly at the recent tribunal (looking into the governments WMD "evidence") you could see he was a man totally out of his depth. It was rumoured that he could of been threatened with losting his job and his pension rights - this plus being in the public spotlight would be enough to explain why he wanted to kill himself. He also practised a religion that specifically allows for suicide. Robert, I can't agree with you at all I'm afraid. I don't for one second, believe he was murdered, but I also do not believe he took his own life and it will take a considerable amount of evidence to prove either case to me. The fact is, he was no ordinary man as I realised having read his profile and what others said about him. I simply do not believe that: a) Such a man would take his own life even under what some would call "intolerable pressure" b) Such a man would come up with a more creative method of killing himself. Slashing his wrist and taking some basic painkillers? This man was chief science officer at Britain's Natural Environment Research Council Institute of Virology and eventually head of microbiology at Porton Down! "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
This was man who may well of been threatened with the loss of his job, loss of his pension (and after 30-odd years that would of left him totally screwed) and, according to some reports today, the MoD may have threatened to prosecute him - meaning he could of ended up in prison - or at the very least with a criminal record, meaning he would never work again. And you don't think that is enough for him to take his own life? Did you see him when he appeared in front of the select comittee? He looked totally out of his depth. He had been told that his name wouldn't be released - but it was - and the pressure on him must of been enormous. I have no doubts in my mind that he took his own life. You don't believe that he took his own life, and you don't think he was murdered? Errr ... what's left? As for "finding a more creative way to kill himself" - what a totally crass comment to make. As if a man at the end of his tether would waste time thinking up a more exotic way of dying.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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I believe this is very unlikely. Such a man would be able to walk away from his job and take a Directorship on the board of any one of many companies happy to have such a dedicated professional. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
Not if the MoD prosecuted him and he ended with a criminal record. Stop looking for conspiracy theories that aren't there - yes, his treatment has been disgusting and governments have been brought down by less, but the man took his own life.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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Not if the MoD prosecuted him and he ended with a criminal record. Stop looking for conspiracy theories that aren't there - yes, his treatment has been disgusting and governments have been brought down by less, but the man took his own life.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Ha! I'm not looking for conspiracy theories, that's not my job. What I'm saying is that it sounds very unlikely, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm a conspiracy theorist! I just require proof before I blindly believe what I'm being told. As for him being prosecuted and receiving a criminal record, I doubt that would happen and I actually think to suggest that there was even a possibility that it would, is FUD. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."