Did David Kelly really kill himself?
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Not if the MoD prosecuted him and he ended with a criminal record. Stop looking for conspiracy theories that aren't there - yes, his treatment has been disgusting and governments have been brought down by less, but the man took his own life.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Ha! I'm not looking for conspiracy theories, that's not my job. What I'm saying is that it sounds very unlikely, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm a conspiracy theorist! I just require proof before I blindly believe what I'm being told. As for him being prosecuted and receiving a criminal record, I doubt that would happen and I actually think to suggest that there was even a possibility that it would, is FUD. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
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This was man who may well of been threatened with the loss of his job, loss of his pension (and after 30-odd years that would of left him totally screwed) and, according to some reports today, the MoD may have threatened to prosecute him - meaning he could of ended up in prison - or at the very least with a criminal record, meaning he would never work again. And you don't think that is enough for him to take his own life? Did you see him when he appeared in front of the select comittee? He looked totally out of his depth. He had been told that his name wouldn't be released - but it was - and the pressure on him must of been enormous. I have no doubts in my mind that he took his own life. You don't believe that he took his own life, and you don't think he was murdered? Errr ... what's left? As for "finding a more creative way to kill himself" - what a totally crass comment to make. As if a man at the end of his tether would waste time thinking up a more exotic way of dying.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
No I don't believe that would have been enough and to suggest it is is just incredible. Even if the MoD tried to play such an unwise card, he would be the sort of man to fight it and even if there is a point at which such a person would have snapped under the pressure, it certainly wouldn't have been until there was a lot *more* pressure than was being exerted a few days ago. I'm sorry, but you simply don't know what pressure he was under, you don't know the man, and you seem to be too ready to accept the facts at mere face value. I don't and I'd prefer to wait until it's played out a bit further before dismissing peoples' uncertainty about what actually happened. Oh and just so you know: "Downing Street said Dr Kelly had been given "a verbal reprimand" about talking to the press by the MoD, but denied any threat being issued to his pension." Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: I have no doubts in my mind that he took his own life. God forbid you ever make it to jury duty. Tell you what though, how about you and everybody else check out this link from the BBC, entitled "Gentle man with a core of steel" and then decide whether or not this man was likely to resort to suicide: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3079775.stm[^] Robert Edward Caldecott wrote:You don't believe that he took his own life, and you don't think he was murdered? Errr ... what's left? I don't know! Can you not deal with that? I really don't know yet, and I'm not prepared to decide either way until I've heard a *lot* more. I refuse to accept the facts at mere face value, I prefer to wait for the results of further research... Robert Edward Caldecott wrote:As for "finding a more creative way to kill himself" - what a totally crass comment to make. As if a man at the end of his tether would waste time thinking up a more exotic way of dying. "Creative" does not mean "exotic" in this context. He was a very intelligent man with a great deal of scientific knowledge. His creativity would be demonstrated by the method he chose, something which would cause him the least pain/discomfort and/or was an efficient method - certainly not sawing his own wrist open with a knife and taking some simple headache tablets. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can
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No I don't believe that would have been enough and to suggest it is is just incredible. Even if the MoD tried to play such an unwise card, he would be the sort of man to fight it and even if there is a point at which such a person would have snapped under the pressure, it certainly wouldn't have been until there was a lot *more* pressure than was being exerted a few days ago. I'm sorry, but you simply don't know what pressure he was under, you don't know the man, and you seem to be too ready to accept the facts at mere face value. I don't and I'd prefer to wait until it's played out a bit further before dismissing peoples' uncertainty about what actually happened. Oh and just so you know: "Downing Street said Dr Kelly had been given "a verbal reprimand" about talking to the press by the MoD, but denied any threat being issued to his pension." Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: I have no doubts in my mind that he took his own life. God forbid you ever make it to jury duty. Tell you what though, how about you and everybody else check out this link from the BBC, entitled "Gentle man with a core of steel" and then decide whether or not this man was likely to resort to suicide: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3079775.stm[^] Robert Edward Caldecott wrote:You don't believe that he took his own life, and you don't think he was murdered? Errr ... what's left? I don't know! Can you not deal with that? I really don't know yet, and I'm not prepared to decide either way until I've heard a *lot* more. I refuse to accept the facts at mere face value, I prefer to wait for the results of further research... Robert Edward Caldecott wrote:As for "finding a more creative way to kill himself" - what a totally crass comment to make. As if a man at the end of his tether would waste time thinking up a more exotic way of dying. "Creative" does not mean "exotic" in this context. He was a very intelligent man with a great deal of scientific knowledge. His creativity would be demonstrated by the method he chose, something which would cause him the least pain/discomfort and/or was an efficient method - certainly not sawing his own wrist open with a knife and taking some simple headache tablets. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can
phykell wrote: "Creative" does not mean "exotic" in this context. He was a very intelligent man with a great deal of scientific knowledge. His creativity would be demonstrated by the method he chose, something which would cause him the least pain/discomfort and/or was an efficient method - certainly not sawing his own wrist open with a knife and taking some simple headache tablets. Once again you demonstrate your desire to find a conspiracy where there is none. These comments are absolutely mindboggling - and, quite frankly, bizarre. How the hell can you presume that such a man would choose a more elaborate method to kill himself? This isn't a bloody Hollywood movie. Headache tablets? Co-proxamyl is a very strong painkiller. Neck a few of those and you won't feel a thing when you cut your wrists. He killed himself. Live with it.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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phykell wrote: "Creative" does not mean "exotic" in this context. He was a very intelligent man with a great deal of scientific knowledge. His creativity would be demonstrated by the method he chose, something which would cause him the least pain/discomfort and/or was an efficient method - certainly not sawing his own wrist open with a knife and taking some simple headache tablets. Once again you demonstrate your desire to find a conspiracy where there is none. These comments are absolutely mindboggling - and, quite frankly, bizarre. How the hell can you presume that such a man would choose a more elaborate method to kill himself? This isn't a bloody Hollywood movie. Headache tablets? Co-proxamyl is a very strong painkiller. Neck a few of those and you won't feel a thing when you cut your wrists. He killed himself. Live with it.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: Once again you demonstrate your desire to find a conspiracy where there is none. I don't "desire" any such thing, I simply refuse to make a judgement based on the so-called facts available. Isn't it a good job that the authorities take my view rather than yours and consider that the events are worthy of investigation. Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: These comments are absolutely mindboggling - and, quite frankly, bizarre. How the hell can you presume that such a man would choose a more elaborate method to kill himself? This isn't a bloody Hollywood movie. Swearing at me? Is this some sort of personal crusade for you? I never said "elaborate" and I never said "exotic", these are your words and your misinterpretation, deliberate or otherwise. Don't put words into my mouth. I merely said that such a man would be able to think of a better method than the one he supposedly used. After all, tablets and/or slashing one wrist are notoriously inefficient, arguably ineffective and potentially very painful. Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: Headache tablets? Co-proxamyl is a very strong painkiller. Neck a few of those and you won't feel a thing when you cut your wrists. I'm not so sure. I would've thought the only way you could avoid pain using tablets is to take so many that you lose consciousness and then you could hardly slash your own wrists could you? However, I do not have a medical background and I would be happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you know any better? "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can." "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."