Drowning in Plastic
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We've seen the reports of the global problem with plastic waste management or lack of management. Plastics come in a whole range of types identified by the little recycling triangle with the number inside. We can only handle a few the the types in recycling processes that chop up or pelletize the specific type of plastic for reuse in building materials or the rare case where they can actually be melted down and reused. But separating the plastics by the numeric type is nearly impossible. Since all plastics (regardless of type) are simply carbon chains, why not handle their recycling as we do other materials that have long carbon chains (thinking of oil here). We distill oil products from randomized hydrocarbon chains by refining the oil in a heat process that breaks the chains into smaller more uniform ones. The specific weights of the chains naturally cause the chains to accumulate and allow for the refinery to draw them off into useful homogeneous groups. (The process is anaerobic because you know heat and hydrocarbons equals balls of fire). So there is a lot of knowledge about refining oil. What if that was applied to plastics. It turns out that a heat of around 600C to 700C will break the plastic hydrocarbon chains back into the monomers that are useful in all plastic formulations. We have a lot of closed or unused refineries in the US. Why not revive one and build a generalized plastic refinery where we could simply dump any grade of plastic into the stack, cook it and draw off the useful monomers? Cost is one. It would be costly to revive an abandoned refinery. Reliable heat source. Gas would be one source but a polluting one. One of the new class of small Thorium reactors that the Japanese are working on would be another. The reactor runs at about 1800C to 2000C and generates super heated steam for power generation. The waste heat after generation is still at about 800C so perfect for use in the refinery stack. (Japanese want to use the waste heat to generate cheap Hydrogen gas for use in electric vehicles) Contamination of the monomers. There is a lot of junk that is bonded to the plastics that can survive the heating cycle. This needs to be segregated and either removed or shunted to another process to remove the specific contamination. There are several universities that are researching catalysts to remove contaminants from plastic production but research funds are tight, so progress is very slow. The contamination issue needs to be addressed since this is a major stopping point. Using
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We've seen the reports of the global problem with plastic waste management or lack of management. Plastics come in a whole range of types identified by the little recycling triangle with the number inside. We can only handle a few the the types in recycling processes that chop up or pelletize the specific type of plastic for reuse in building materials or the rare case where they can actually be melted down and reused. But separating the plastics by the numeric type is nearly impossible. Since all plastics (regardless of type) are simply carbon chains, why not handle their recycling as we do other materials that have long carbon chains (thinking of oil here). We distill oil products from randomized hydrocarbon chains by refining the oil in a heat process that breaks the chains into smaller more uniform ones. The specific weights of the chains naturally cause the chains to accumulate and allow for the refinery to draw them off into useful homogeneous groups. (The process is anaerobic because you know heat and hydrocarbons equals balls of fire). So there is a lot of knowledge about refining oil. What if that was applied to plastics. It turns out that a heat of around 600C to 700C will break the plastic hydrocarbon chains back into the monomers that are useful in all plastic formulations. We have a lot of closed or unused refineries in the US. Why not revive one and build a generalized plastic refinery where we could simply dump any grade of plastic into the stack, cook it and draw off the useful monomers? Cost is one. It would be costly to revive an abandoned refinery. Reliable heat source. Gas would be one source but a polluting one. One of the new class of small Thorium reactors that the Japanese are working on would be another. The reactor runs at about 1800C to 2000C and generates super heated steam for power generation. The waste heat after generation is still at about 800C so perfect for use in the refinery stack. (Japanese want to use the waste heat to generate cheap Hydrogen gas for use in electric vehicles) Contamination of the monomers. There is a lot of junk that is bonded to the plastics that can survive the heating cycle. This needs to be segregated and either removed or shunted to another process to remove the specific contamination. There are several universities that are researching catalysts to remove contaminants from plastic production but research funds are tight, so progress is very slow. The contamination issue needs to be addressed since this is a major stopping point. Using
We made a trip to Europe several years ago and when we got to Bruges there was a sculpture of a plastic whale that I thought was pretty cool. The Bruges Whale - Thought Provoking Art: What Are We Doing to Our Oceans? - PhilaTravelGirl[^] And if they can do it why can't we? Plastic Whale – Together for a plastic free land & sea[^]
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We made a trip to Europe several years ago and when we got to Bruges there was a sculpture of a plastic whale that I thought was pretty cool. The Bruges Whale - Thought Provoking Art: What Are We Doing to Our Oceans? - PhilaTravelGirl[^] And if they can do it why can't we? Plastic Whale – Together for a plastic free land & sea[^]
Definition of a burocrate; Delegate, Take Credit, shift blame. PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.3.1 JaxCoder.com Latest Article: EventAggregator
There seems to be several of these around. I was watching Landscape Artist of the Year 2018 at Viking Bay, and they had one there, which may or may not have been there solely for the LOTY taping. There also seems to be a plastic whale in Monterey Bay, California.
"A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants" Chuckles the clown
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We've seen the reports of the global problem with plastic waste management or lack of management. Plastics come in a whole range of types identified by the little recycling triangle with the number inside. We can only handle a few the the types in recycling processes that chop up or pelletize the specific type of plastic for reuse in building materials or the rare case where they can actually be melted down and reused. But separating the plastics by the numeric type is nearly impossible. Since all plastics (regardless of type) are simply carbon chains, why not handle their recycling as we do other materials that have long carbon chains (thinking of oil here). We distill oil products from randomized hydrocarbon chains by refining the oil in a heat process that breaks the chains into smaller more uniform ones. The specific weights of the chains naturally cause the chains to accumulate and allow for the refinery to draw them off into useful homogeneous groups. (The process is anaerobic because you know heat and hydrocarbons equals balls of fire). So there is a lot of knowledge about refining oil. What if that was applied to plastics. It turns out that a heat of around 600C to 700C will break the plastic hydrocarbon chains back into the monomers that are useful in all plastic formulations. We have a lot of closed or unused refineries in the US. Why not revive one and build a generalized plastic refinery where we could simply dump any grade of plastic into the stack, cook it and draw off the useful monomers? Cost is one. It would be costly to revive an abandoned refinery. Reliable heat source. Gas would be one source but a polluting one. One of the new class of small Thorium reactors that the Japanese are working on would be another. The reactor runs at about 1800C to 2000C and generates super heated steam for power generation. The waste heat after generation is still at about 800C so perfect for use in the refinery stack. (Japanese want to use the waste heat to generate cheap Hydrogen gas for use in electric vehicles) Contamination of the monomers. There is a lot of junk that is bonded to the plastics that can survive the heating cycle. This needs to be segregated and either removed or shunted to another process to remove the specific contamination. There are several universities that are researching catalysts to remove contaminants from plastic production but research funds are tight, so progress is very slow. The contamination issue needs to be addressed since this is a major stopping point. Using
In the Netherlands we have separate bins for plastic, but sadly about 70 percent goes straight into the burning furnace and isn't recycled :sigh:
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In the Netherlands we have separate bins for plastic, but sadly about 70 percent goes straight into the burning furnace and isn't recycled :sigh:
Isn't burning exactly what the OP suggested? A discussion (/argument) is currently going on between Norway and EU: EU wants to mandate reuse of soft drink (mostly) bottles, "as is". We did that in Norway many years ago. Today, the bottles are crushed and compressed (by the Tomra deposit return machines), and sent of to be ground up and new bottles made. It turned out that the transportation of all those empty bottles - not much weight, but of enormous volume - cost far more energy and led to more pollution than the savings from reusing the bottles "as is". EU is not willing to accept those calculations, and demand that we transport un-crushed, empty bottles all over the country. Note that reuse require a cleaning process that both uses a lot of energy and requires quite space demanding equipment. When you grind up the bottles, the cleansing process is a lot simpler (you need not go down through a narrow throat, and there are no corners where dirt may hide). The later molding of new bottles also is sanitizing. (For those who do not follow European politics closely: Norway is not a member of the EU, but have signed an agreement called 'European Economic Area' that obliges Norway to adopt EU rulings in a lot of areas, such as environmental regulations.)
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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We've seen the reports of the global problem with plastic waste management or lack of management. Plastics come in a whole range of types identified by the little recycling triangle with the number inside. We can only handle a few the the types in recycling processes that chop up or pelletize the specific type of plastic for reuse in building materials or the rare case where they can actually be melted down and reused. But separating the plastics by the numeric type is nearly impossible. Since all plastics (regardless of type) are simply carbon chains, why not handle their recycling as we do other materials that have long carbon chains (thinking of oil here). We distill oil products from randomized hydrocarbon chains by refining the oil in a heat process that breaks the chains into smaller more uniform ones. The specific weights of the chains naturally cause the chains to accumulate and allow for the refinery to draw them off into useful homogeneous groups. (The process is anaerobic because you know heat and hydrocarbons equals balls of fire). So there is a lot of knowledge about refining oil. What if that was applied to plastics. It turns out that a heat of around 600C to 700C will break the plastic hydrocarbon chains back into the monomers that are useful in all plastic formulations. We have a lot of closed or unused refineries in the US. Why not revive one and build a generalized plastic refinery where we could simply dump any grade of plastic into the stack, cook it and draw off the useful monomers? Cost is one. It would be costly to revive an abandoned refinery. Reliable heat source. Gas would be one source but a polluting one. One of the new class of small Thorium reactors that the Japanese are working on would be another. The reactor runs at about 1800C to 2000C and generates super heated steam for power generation. The waste heat after generation is still at about 800C so perfect for use in the refinery stack. (Japanese want to use the waste heat to generate cheap Hydrogen gas for use in electric vehicles) Contamination of the monomers. There is a lot of junk that is bonded to the plastics that can survive the heating cycle. This needs to be segregated and either removed or shunted to another process to remove the specific contamination. There are several universities that are researching catalysts to remove contaminants from plastic production but research funds are tight, so progress is very slow. The contamination issue needs to be addressed since this is a major stopping point. Using
You are to some degree contradicting yourself:
Gary Stachelski 2021 wrote:
Since all plastics (regardless of type) are simply carbon chains,
and then:
There is a lot of junk that is bonded to the plastics that can survive the heating cycle.
That is most certainly true. Lots of plastics can release some very nasty fumes if burnt. In Norway, we have separate collection of plastics. A few years ago, I heard that about 60% of the collected waste plastic could be recycled. At that time, the guidelines for what to put in the plastic recycle bin was rather restrictive; a lot of plastics should not go there. The 40% that wasn't recycled was essentially plastic types that shouldn't have been there, but you can't expect every consumer to able to recognize thousands of different plastics and know which kind to put in which garbage bin. The un-recyclable part is burnt, but in special furnaces where they have full control of the fumes. The return policy was revised last year: Now, a lot of plastic types that were earlier undesired is now welcome. I guess that they have gotten new machinery that can sort and process more types than before. Hopefully, the recycling percentage is going up.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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You are to some degree contradicting yourself:
Gary Stachelski 2021 wrote:
Since all plastics (regardless of type) are simply carbon chains,
and then:
There is a lot of junk that is bonded to the plastics that can survive the heating cycle.
That is most certainly true. Lots of plastics can release some very nasty fumes if burnt. In Norway, we have separate collection of plastics. A few years ago, I heard that about 60% of the collected waste plastic could be recycled. At that time, the guidelines for what to put in the plastic recycle bin was rather restrictive; a lot of plastics should not go there. The 40% that wasn't recycled was essentially plastic types that shouldn't have been there, but you can't expect every consumer to able to recognize thousands of different plastics and know which kind to put in which garbage bin. The un-recyclable part is burnt, but in special furnaces where they have full control of the fumes. The return policy was revised last year: Now, a lot of plastic types that were earlier undesired is now welcome. I guess that they have gotten new machinery that can sort and process more types than before. Hopefully, the recycling percentage is going up.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
Not really a contradiction. (also I miss typed, it should be "...all plastics (regardless of type) are simply Hydrocarbon chains." The exact formulation of plastic products take the monomers (short chained hydrocarbons) and splice them together to make the base product, pigments are added to give coloration, some other chemicals are added to change the overall characteristics of the plastic (pliability, elasticity, strength) The exact formulations are trade secrets guarded by the plastic manufacturers. However, they make the decomposition of the plastics back into their original pure short chain monomers more complicated. I am not an organic chemist so my limited knowledge of the subject leaves me a bit short on the exact details. As has been pointed out, the main way of handling of used plastic products is to burn them in a high heat furnace with stack filters to trap the nasty stuff that does not burn properly. Unfortunately this produces unwanted CO2 exhaust, toxic ash that has to buried and cost for the heat source. A lot of plastics go into land fills. And even more are dumped at sea. Sorry for the lack of detail in the post.
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We've seen the reports of the global problem with plastic waste management or lack of management. Plastics come in a whole range of types identified by the little recycling triangle with the number inside. We can only handle a few the the types in recycling processes that chop up or pelletize the specific type of plastic for reuse in building materials or the rare case where they can actually be melted down and reused. But separating the plastics by the numeric type is nearly impossible. Since all plastics (regardless of type) are simply carbon chains, why not handle their recycling as we do other materials that have long carbon chains (thinking of oil here). We distill oil products from randomized hydrocarbon chains by refining the oil in a heat process that breaks the chains into smaller more uniform ones. The specific weights of the chains naturally cause the chains to accumulate and allow for the refinery to draw them off into useful homogeneous groups. (The process is anaerobic because you know heat and hydrocarbons equals balls of fire). So there is a lot of knowledge about refining oil. What if that was applied to plastics. It turns out that a heat of around 600C to 700C will break the plastic hydrocarbon chains back into the monomers that are useful in all plastic formulations. We have a lot of closed or unused refineries in the US. Why not revive one and build a generalized plastic refinery where we could simply dump any grade of plastic into the stack, cook it and draw off the useful monomers? Cost is one. It would be costly to revive an abandoned refinery. Reliable heat source. Gas would be one source but a polluting one. One of the new class of small Thorium reactors that the Japanese are working on would be another. The reactor runs at about 1800C to 2000C and generates super heated steam for power generation. The waste heat after generation is still at about 800C so perfect for use in the refinery stack. (Japanese want to use the waste heat to generate cheap Hydrogen gas for use in electric vehicles) Contamination of the monomers. There is a lot of junk that is bonded to the plastics that can survive the heating cycle. This needs to be segregated and either removed or shunted to another process to remove the specific contamination. There are several universities that are researching catalysts to remove contaminants from plastic production but research funds are tight, so progress is very slow. The contamination issue needs to be addressed since this is a major stopping point. Using
A major fly in your ointment. Halogens. Many plastics are halogenated hydrocarbons. For example, PVC is around 50% Chlorine by weight.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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We've seen the reports of the global problem with plastic waste management or lack of management. Plastics come in a whole range of types identified by the little recycling triangle with the number inside. We can only handle a few the the types in recycling processes that chop up or pelletize the specific type of plastic for reuse in building materials or the rare case where they can actually be melted down and reused. But separating the plastics by the numeric type is nearly impossible. Since all plastics (regardless of type) are simply carbon chains, why not handle their recycling as we do other materials that have long carbon chains (thinking of oil here). We distill oil products from randomized hydrocarbon chains by refining the oil in a heat process that breaks the chains into smaller more uniform ones. The specific weights of the chains naturally cause the chains to accumulate and allow for the refinery to draw them off into useful homogeneous groups. (The process is anaerobic because you know heat and hydrocarbons equals balls of fire). So there is a lot of knowledge about refining oil. What if that was applied to plastics. It turns out that a heat of around 600C to 700C will break the plastic hydrocarbon chains back into the monomers that are useful in all plastic formulations. We have a lot of closed or unused refineries in the US. Why not revive one and build a generalized plastic refinery where we could simply dump any grade of plastic into the stack, cook it and draw off the useful monomers? Cost is one. It would be costly to revive an abandoned refinery. Reliable heat source. Gas would be one source but a polluting one. One of the new class of small Thorium reactors that the Japanese are working on would be another. The reactor runs at about 1800C to 2000C and generates super heated steam for power generation. The waste heat after generation is still at about 800C so perfect for use in the refinery stack. (Japanese want to use the waste heat to generate cheap Hydrogen gas for use in electric vehicles) Contamination of the monomers. There is a lot of junk that is bonded to the plastics that can survive the heating cycle. This needs to be segregated and either removed or shunted to another process to remove the specific contamination. There are several universities that are researching catalysts to remove contaminants from plastic production but research funds are tight, so progress is very slow. The contamination issue needs to be addressed since this is a major stopping point. Using
You forgot about one : greed. Things are not like they are because we do not have the technology or the willing to change them, they are like this because either someone is making a lot of profit out of them and so will not change anything even if the planet dies out of it, or someone should be giving up comfort in their current life and thinks that we are doomed anyway because their own little contribution does not compare to what others are doing on a billion's higher magnitude, and, doomed for doomed, they won't move either. Those who can change it do not want to change it. Those who suffers from it have no power to change it.
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A major fly in your ointment. Halogens. Many plastics are halogenated hydrocarbons. For example, PVC is around 50% Chlorine by weight.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
Thanks for the info. I looked up halogenated hydrocarbons. Fascinating and scary at the same time. The amount of heat required to break the carbon-chlorine bond is very high. The general idea was to simply take plastic waste and subject it to a high enough heat to break it into it's monomers. This way sorting of the plastic (which very expensive to do) is avoided. I now wonder if pure monomers are impossible because of the energy requirements, then would the specific weights of the contaminated monomers cause a stratification of the monomers into homogeneous groups that could be siphoned off for reuse. More specifically, if all of the PVC monomers ended up in a pure layer of PVC monomer material, could it be extracted for reuse in PVC products? Probably depends on the number of chemical bonds done to the monomers, how many unique groupings would be possible and would gravity naturally cause them to arrange themselves to large enough groups to be siphoned off.
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You forgot about one : greed. Things are not like they are because we do not have the technology or the willing to change them, they are like this because either someone is making a lot of profit out of them and so will not change anything even if the planet dies out of it, or someone should be giving up comfort in their current life and thinks that we are doomed anyway because their own little contribution does not compare to what others are doing on a billion's higher magnitude, and, doomed for doomed, they won't move either. Those who can change it do not want to change it. Those who suffers from it have no power to change it.
I kind of lumped greed in with politics. They seem to be two sides of the same coin. I agree that greed can strangle an idea. (or it can provide motivation to embrace a change.) If the process of recovering useful material from discarded waste is cost effective, then the greedier corporations will push to adopt it to get an advantage over their rivals. (and make more money) Politicians can be motivated by the idea that old refineries can be refitted and revitalized providing construction jobs and jobs running the plant when it is finished. Plus all of the support jobs that are generated to support the plant workers. There will be the need for scientific and engineering research and development. Perfect connections for Universities with young graduates who want to make a mark on the world. The existing oil/refinery companies have a deep knowledge of running and maintaining refining facilities. The output of the refinery would be trivial to start with but with time, work and energy it will improve. The oil/refinery companies could care less if they are supplying the raw materials or semi-processed materials (recycled) to manufacturers as long as they are making more money at it. Those that wish to participate will be on the ground floor of a new industry that thrives on the discarded waste of our modern society. The more we invent and make the more waste there is to be recycled. A growth industry with no end in sight. The real fly in the ointment is that Government is the only organization that can take a large monetary risk on something new. No business would accept the level of risk involved.
