Highspeed residential VOIP phone service
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Has anyone tried this yet? http://www.cablecastermagazine.com/article.asp?id=26007
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Has anyone tried this yet? http://www.cablecastermagazine.com/article.asp?id=26007
No, but I used to work on a product that was very similar. In the end, we couldn't give it away. (Neither could Cisco with their home device.) The biggest problem was that we couldn't guarantee quality of service. We ran many tests and were surprised at how inconsistant broadband providers were. Even the same vendor in the same general neighborhood would have consistant connections and horrible ones (from a VoIP standpoint.) On the other hand, if you have a decent connection and the vendor has decent technology, the quality should be better than a cell phone. We had a facility in Israel and were usually able to talk to them from the US with better quality than a normal phone. (Note, however, that one reason VoIP is cheaper is because in many countries, it is still exempt from many of the usual taxes and tariffs the phone company has to pay. This isn't going to last.) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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No, but I used to work on a product that was very similar. In the end, we couldn't give it away. (Neither could Cisco with their home device.) The biggest problem was that we couldn't guarantee quality of service. We ran many tests and were surprised at how inconsistant broadband providers were. Even the same vendor in the same general neighborhood would have consistant connections and horrible ones (from a VoIP standpoint.) On the other hand, if you have a decent connection and the vendor has decent technology, the quality should be better than a cell phone. We had a facility in Israel and were usually able to talk to them from the US with better quality than a normal phone. (Note, however, that one reason VoIP is cheaper is because in many countries, it is still exempt from many of the usual taxes and tariffs the phone company has to pay. This isn't going to last.) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
What is really needed is a managed network (either voice only or with appropriate QOS provisioning). AT&T have such a network, and Verizon is committed to a 100% VOIP network after signing up with Nortel VOIP. VOIP is definitely here to stay and I expect that over time (a few years) the existing Space Switches such as 5ESS (Lucent) will be phased out. What you are missing is the backbone connectivity which is currently advanced (but not necessarily available to the public). Look to companies like Verizon to offer exclusively VOIP phones. In the interim, and especially if you have Cable, you can download a wide range of products which offer VOIP/Phone interchange. None are good enough to earn my recommendation but the future is about to arrive, of that I'm sure. I do use Messenger 6.1 to talk voice to Britain on a daily basis. I suspect that 10-10-987 may be using a VOIP backbone. Companies like Global Crossing (who support IPV6 and therefore better defined QOS protocol) are likely to shape the future too. Another product I'm warming too (although it cannot drill through firewalls at present) is the Microsoft Portrait Beta. Video Phone is on the way! In the end the outcome is inevitable. It makes zero sense to maintain two distinctly different networks. So you can expect that VOIP (with the appropriate backbone technology to give you QOS - Quality Of Service) is the wave of the future. And according to Verizon the future is nearly upon us. As for Cisco routers? Avoid them like the plague. Cisco has excellent coverage but the performance of their equipment is far, far less than stellar. Trust me. I benchmarked Cisco for a Very Large Company about two years back. And Cisco were so bad we had to rerun the tests several times to prove it! Only change is constant, until it isn't
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What is really needed is a managed network (either voice only or with appropriate QOS provisioning). AT&T have such a network, and Verizon is committed to a 100% VOIP network after signing up with Nortel VOIP. VOIP is definitely here to stay and I expect that over time (a few years) the existing Space Switches such as 5ESS (Lucent) will be phased out. What you are missing is the backbone connectivity which is currently advanced (but not necessarily available to the public). Look to companies like Verizon to offer exclusively VOIP phones. In the interim, and especially if you have Cable, you can download a wide range of products which offer VOIP/Phone interchange. None are good enough to earn my recommendation but the future is about to arrive, of that I'm sure. I do use Messenger 6.1 to talk voice to Britain on a daily basis. I suspect that 10-10-987 may be using a VOIP backbone. Companies like Global Crossing (who support IPV6 and therefore better defined QOS protocol) are likely to shape the future too. Another product I'm warming too (although it cannot drill through firewalls at present) is the Microsoft Portrait Beta. Video Phone is on the way! In the end the outcome is inevitable. It makes zero sense to maintain two distinctly different networks. So you can expect that VOIP (with the appropriate backbone technology to give you QOS - Quality Of Service) is the wave of the future. And according to Verizon the future is nearly upon us. As for Cisco routers? Avoid them like the plague. Cisco has excellent coverage but the performance of their equipment is far, far less than stellar. Trust me. I benchmarked Cisco for a Very Large Company about two years back. And Cisco were so bad we had to rerun the tests several times to prove it! Only change is constant, until it isn't
Well, call me an early adopter or even a beta tester, but I just signed in. Will see how it goes once I get the device in the mail in a couple of days. I am happy that I was able to keep the same phone number as my land line which will be canceled. There is no 911 service yet, but I guess paying $19.95 instead of $39.96 is worth the try.
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What is really needed is a managed network (either voice only or with appropriate QOS provisioning). AT&T have such a network, and Verizon is committed to a 100% VOIP network after signing up with Nortel VOIP. VOIP is definitely here to stay and I expect that over time (a few years) the existing Space Switches such as 5ESS (Lucent) will be phased out. What you are missing is the backbone connectivity which is currently advanced (but not necessarily available to the public). Look to companies like Verizon to offer exclusively VOIP phones. In the interim, and especially if you have Cable, you can download a wide range of products which offer VOIP/Phone interchange. None are good enough to earn my recommendation but the future is about to arrive, of that I'm sure. I do use Messenger 6.1 to talk voice to Britain on a daily basis. I suspect that 10-10-987 may be using a VOIP backbone. Companies like Global Crossing (who support IPV6 and therefore better defined QOS protocol) are likely to shape the future too. Another product I'm warming too (although it cannot drill through firewalls at present) is the Microsoft Portrait Beta. Video Phone is on the way! In the end the outcome is inevitable. It makes zero sense to maintain two distinctly different networks. So you can expect that VOIP (with the appropriate backbone technology to give you QOS - Quality Of Service) is the wave of the future. And according to Verizon the future is nearly upon us. As for Cisco routers? Avoid them like the plague. Cisco has excellent coverage but the performance of their equipment is far, far less than stellar. Trust me. I benchmarked Cisco for a Very Large Company about two years back. And Cisco were so bad we had to rerun the tests several times to prove it! Only change is constant, until it isn't
Remember that class 5 switches work, work well and are paid for. Ultimately, the problem with VoIP is that it still doesn't run at five 9s (99.999% uptime) which most class 5 switches do. From my direct experience, most dial around (1010 xxx) businesses still use traditional switches, many rather old. It's still cheaper to route calls using SS7 than VoIP. Interestingly, there is another, more subtle, problem with VoIP. As it grows it starts running into the same challenges that class 5 switches solved. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Well, call me an early adopter or even a beta tester, but I just signed in. Will see how it goes once I get the device in the mail in a couple of days. I am happy that I was able to keep the same phone number as my land line which will be canceled. There is no 911 service yet, but I guess paying $19.95 instead of $39.96 is worth the try.
Good for you! Please let us know how it works out. I'm surprised there is no 911 service and unfortunately that is rather revealing. As you are probably aware the telcos operate under strict regulation, which include reliability and (in particular) 911 service. A problem with VOIP is that, in theory at least, you can originate or receive a call almost anywhere that network access is provided (you may not be given that flexibility but it is intrinsic to the system!). 911 Service requires geographic awareness, and VOIP is still having problems with this. The other issue is (primarily) redundancy. The VOIP Service Provider and the network connections must meet telco standards to be deemed acceptable for 911 services. Obviously yours ain't! In fairness the standards imposed on telcos is absolutely rediculous. For instance we have to equip our telco-standard voip switches with things like 'water level alarms'. Picture a flooded VOIP switch and you begin to realize how expensive it can be to meet telco requirements! Anyhow, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you! All the best. Only change is constant, until it isn't
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Remember that class 5 switches work, work well and are paid for. Ultimately, the problem with VoIP is that it still doesn't run at five 9s (99.999% uptime) which most class 5 switches do. From my direct experience, most dial around (1010 xxx) businesses still use traditional switches, many rather old. It's still cheaper to route calls using SS7 than VoIP. Interestingly, there is another, more subtle, problem with VoIP. As it grows it starts running into the same challenges that class 5 switches solved. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Obviously I'm talking to someone who knows! Yes you're right about Class 5 switches. But Verizon have already made their intentions clear. What I suspect will happen is that most of the small Operating Companies will hang onto their space-switch based systems for quite some time to come. But several of the major players will look at the economics and figure it is cheaper to consolidate onto one system rather than maintain infrastructure for both. The switch-over point is a question of technology, meeting standards, and backbone. But when these elements are all in place I think we'll see an avalanche effect. What I can tell you for sure is the sales of 5ESS switches are moribund at present. Overseas we are seeing a very significant move to VOIP. In fact the economics in many countries outside North America are even more compelling. As for SS7, it may amuse you to know that I've seen VOIP routed over SS7 itself (it was done for one of the olympics I believe). Bizarre but true! SS7 will probably continue as a primary inter trunk call control protocol in part because (unlike MTP) it's incredibly simple and robust. I notice that IPV6 can accommodate SS7 protocol also. I believe we are witnessing the end of one era, and the beginning of another. My hobby horse is Video Phone and I'm currently looking at fault tolerant compression and transmission protocols. SIP is the obvious connection protocol. I would also speculate the days of DSL are coming to an end. Either the telcos pick up cable companies or the cable companies will pick off the telcos. If the telcos move fast on this issue they will win, because my experience with Cable Companies is that they are very naive in respect of telecoms. Anyhow maybe I'm all wrong. The way the American economy is heading (despite the hype) I suspect we'll all be using bongo-drums before long! Only change is constant, until it isn't
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Obviously I'm talking to someone who knows! Yes you're right about Class 5 switches. But Verizon have already made their intentions clear. What I suspect will happen is that most of the small Operating Companies will hang onto their space-switch based systems for quite some time to come. But several of the major players will look at the economics and figure it is cheaper to consolidate onto one system rather than maintain infrastructure for both. The switch-over point is a question of technology, meeting standards, and backbone. But when these elements are all in place I think we'll see an avalanche effect. What I can tell you for sure is the sales of 5ESS switches are moribund at present. Overseas we are seeing a very significant move to VOIP. In fact the economics in many countries outside North America are even more compelling. As for SS7, it may amuse you to know that I've seen VOIP routed over SS7 itself (it was done for one of the olympics I believe). Bizarre but true! SS7 will probably continue as a primary inter trunk call control protocol in part because (unlike MTP) it's incredibly simple and robust. I notice that IPV6 can accommodate SS7 protocol also. I believe we are witnessing the end of one era, and the beginning of another. My hobby horse is Video Phone and I'm currently looking at fault tolerant compression and transmission protocols. SIP is the obvious connection protocol. I would also speculate the days of DSL are coming to an end. Either the telcos pick up cable companies or the cable companies will pick off the telcos. If the telcos move fast on this issue they will win, because my experience with Cable Companies is that they are very naive in respect of telecoms. Anyhow maybe I'm all wrong. The way the American economy is heading (despite the hype) I suspect we'll all be using bongo-drums before long! Only change is constant, until it isn't
Alastair Stell wrote: What I can tell you for sure is the sales of 5ESS switches are moribund at present. I recall reading around 2002 that Nortel hadn't sold a new class 5 switch in five years. SS7 is just a call control protocol, so you can't actually route VoIp over it. It's both simple and horribly complex at the same time, much like all of telecom. We used it at the end points where the VoIP and T1/T3 networks met. I'm actually very negative on SIP. It's a crappy, ill conceived protocol that can't even negotiate firewalls. It's missing key data required for a truly robust solution. (Of course, compared to all the telecom protocols, it's just par for the course.) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Alastair Stell wrote: What I can tell you for sure is the sales of 5ESS switches are moribund at present. I recall reading around 2002 that Nortel hadn't sold a new class 5 switch in five years. SS7 is just a call control protocol, so you can't actually route VoIp over it. It's both simple and horribly complex at the same time, much like all of telecom. We used it at the end points where the VoIP and T1/T3 networks met. I'm actually very negative on SIP. It's a crappy, ill conceived protocol that can't even negotiate firewalls. It's missing key data required for a truly robust solution. (Of course, compared to all the telecom protocols, it's just par for the course.) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
That doesn't surprise me. I wasn't trying to pick on Lucent; I was simply drawing on experience I have in the industry. If I recall correctly (and it may have changed) Lucent has several VOIP offerings based on ATM for internal bussing as well as external connectivity. Quite an expensive solution. Yes SS7 is a call control protocol. I'm not at liberty to explain what we did. I tend to regard SS7 as simple; I helped implement CCSS/SS7 for GTE (as it was then) on the GTD5 and also on a working group sent over to Lucent on the 5ESS. Simple is relative. I had the misfortune to also implement ISDN and that, truly, was a horse designed by committee. Too little, too late, too expensive. However we did get to reuse a great deal of what we learnt later... SIP? Well after H323 I found SIP to be a breath of fresh air. I am genuinely open to learning about a better protocol. As regard crossing firewalls, I understand what you're saying but we use firewalls which are specifically SIP capable. I'm surprised you haven't run into these. You can even get add-ons for many of the older firewalls. In general I'd agree that telecom protocols sucketh royally. Not much I can add except that telecom is usually a committee effort. Only change is constant, until it isn't
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That doesn't surprise me. I wasn't trying to pick on Lucent; I was simply drawing on experience I have in the industry. If I recall correctly (and it may have changed) Lucent has several VOIP offerings based on ATM for internal bussing as well as external connectivity. Quite an expensive solution. Yes SS7 is a call control protocol. I'm not at liberty to explain what we did. I tend to regard SS7 as simple; I helped implement CCSS/SS7 for GTE (as it was then) on the GTD5 and also on a working group sent over to Lucent on the 5ESS. Simple is relative. I had the misfortune to also implement ISDN and that, truly, was a horse designed by committee. Too little, too late, too expensive. However we did get to reuse a great deal of what we learnt later... SIP? Well after H323 I found SIP to be a breath of fresh air. I am genuinely open to learning about a better protocol. As regard crossing firewalls, I understand what you're saying but we use firewalls which are specifically SIP capable. I'm surprised you haven't run into these. You can even get add-ons for many of the older firewalls. In general I'd agree that telecom protocols sucketh royally. Not much I can add except that telecom is usually a committee effort. Only change is constant, until it isn't
Sorry, I forgot to add. Yes, SIP did f**k up in respect of firewalls. We're okay over private VPN but inter system is a pain. You are completely correct is saying they should've thought this one out better. Only change is constant, until it isn't
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That doesn't surprise me. I wasn't trying to pick on Lucent; I was simply drawing on experience I have in the industry. If I recall correctly (and it may have changed) Lucent has several VOIP offerings based on ATM for internal bussing as well as external connectivity. Quite an expensive solution. Yes SS7 is a call control protocol. I'm not at liberty to explain what we did. I tend to regard SS7 as simple; I helped implement CCSS/SS7 for GTE (as it was then) on the GTD5 and also on a working group sent over to Lucent on the 5ESS. Simple is relative. I had the misfortune to also implement ISDN and that, truly, was a horse designed by committee. Too little, too late, too expensive. However we did get to reuse a great deal of what we learnt later... SIP? Well after H323 I found SIP to be a breath of fresh air. I am genuinely open to learning about a better protocol. As regard crossing firewalls, I understand what you're saying but we use firewalls which are specifically SIP capable. I'm surprised you haven't run into these. You can even get add-ons for many of the older firewalls. In general I'd agree that telecom protocols sucketh royally. Not much I can add except that telecom is usually a committee effort. Only change is constant, until it isn't
Alastair Stell wrote: Well after H323 I found SIP to be a breath of fresh air. Anything is a breath of fresh air compared to H323. When I was working on SIP, all of two years ago, the firewall solutions were still basically a hack. I should have added that there was the NAT issue, which was a bigger problem. (Our device actually used a proprietary protocol that maintained a persistent connection with our gateways. I was tasked to heavily modify the firmware of these and convert them to use SIP. The project was cancelled after two months.) (For those who don't know, but are bizzarly curious, the problem with H323, SS7 and other telecom protocols is that the standards don't require that vendors actually implement any given subset of the standard. On top of that, vendors often add their own proprietary extensions. To make it even worse, for people like me coming in as a novice, some of the terms didn't mean what any reasonably technical person would think they mean.) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke