Repost: Automate Legacy 3270 Applications
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I posted this in the C# forum, but it didn't get many responses yet... We have an interesting, but perhaps not uncommon, system integration and architectural challenge, since our principle line-of-business application runs on a mainframe (“zSeries” it’s called these days) hosted, supported and controlled by our biggest vendor. So, we connect to the application using 3270 terminal emulation (“Rumba”) that connects through Microsoft SNA, er…, Host Integration Server. Plus, since it is 3270 through SNA, TN3270 isn’t an option, either. We have no direct control over things that run on the mainframe, i.e., we cannot run APPC programs or execute CICS jobs. We can only choose menu options and enter characters on existing screens. So, I want to be able to do that automatically. And, I’ve been doing research. I’ve found stuff about HLLAPI and WinHLLAPI. Neither of these sounds very robust (Daniel Turini posted a response about those alternatives to someone else’s inquiry about screen scraping here on CP). I’ve found several vendors (SDI, ClientSoft, NetManage, Zephyr Corp) who offer expensive legacy application/host integration packages that sound like they’ll do the job, but the prices are pretty high. So, what I’d like to know is: 1) if you confronted such a challenge on a project, what solution did you use? 2) how has that solution worked out? 3) if there is a low-cost, non-proprietry solution, what is it and are there code samples? Your insights and experience are appreciated. What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable . . . and yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? -- Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.
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I posted this in the C# forum, but it didn't get many responses yet... We have an interesting, but perhaps not uncommon, system integration and architectural challenge, since our principle line-of-business application runs on a mainframe (“zSeries” it’s called these days) hosted, supported and controlled by our biggest vendor. So, we connect to the application using 3270 terminal emulation (“Rumba”) that connects through Microsoft SNA, er…, Host Integration Server. Plus, since it is 3270 through SNA, TN3270 isn’t an option, either. We have no direct control over things that run on the mainframe, i.e., we cannot run APPC programs or execute CICS jobs. We can only choose menu options and enter characters on existing screens. So, I want to be able to do that automatically. And, I’ve been doing research. I’ve found stuff about HLLAPI and WinHLLAPI. Neither of these sounds very robust (Daniel Turini posted a response about those alternatives to someone else’s inquiry about screen scraping here on CP). I’ve found several vendors (SDI, ClientSoft, NetManage, Zephyr Corp) who offer expensive legacy application/host integration packages that sound like they’ll do the job, but the prices are pretty high. So, what I’d like to know is: 1) if you confronted such a challenge on a project, what solution did you use? 2) how has that solution worked out? 3) if there is a low-cost, non-proprietry solution, what is it and are there code samples? Your insights and experience are appreciated. What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable . . . and yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? -- Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.
John Kuhn wrote: Microsoft SNA, er…, Host Integration Server. Plus, since it is 3270 through SNA, TN3270 isn’t an option, either. Why TN3270 isn't an option? IIRC, HIS can talk 3270 through SNA with the mainframe, and talk TN3270 (actually, TN3270E) with the rest of the (TCP/IP) network. I've seen this done before... If you need to connect through SNA, you'll need proper hardware on the machine that runs on your software, and this will increase your costs a lot. An IRMA card is way more expensive than terminal emulation software. About HLLAPI and WinHLLAPI, you're right: I'm yet to see an implementation of them robust enough for server-side. Most terminal emulation packages (QWS3270, ), include some cheap form of terminal emulation automation that is independent of the underlying network. The problem is: almost all of them use OLE automation, which will not be suited for server-side tasks. Again, try to see if TN3270E on HIS is not an option, because things will be simpler: you can use the free s3270.exe (from Cygwin) to easily make some screen scrapping code from .NET. Some years ago, I used Attachmate products and they were the best terminal emulation software I used at that time. Price was fair, too, and much lower than the competitors. Perl combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski
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John Kuhn wrote: Microsoft SNA, er…, Host Integration Server. Plus, since it is 3270 through SNA, TN3270 isn’t an option, either. Why TN3270 isn't an option? IIRC, HIS can talk 3270 through SNA with the mainframe, and talk TN3270 (actually, TN3270E) with the rest of the (TCP/IP) network. I've seen this done before... If you need to connect through SNA, you'll need proper hardware on the machine that runs on your software, and this will increase your costs a lot. An IRMA card is way more expensive than terminal emulation software. About HLLAPI and WinHLLAPI, you're right: I'm yet to see an implementation of them robust enough for server-side. Most terminal emulation packages (QWS3270, ), include some cheap form of terminal emulation automation that is independent of the underlying network. The problem is: almost all of them use OLE automation, which will not be suited for server-side tasks. Again, try to see if TN3270E on HIS is not an option, because things will be simpler: you can use the free s3270.exe (from Cygwin) to easily make some screen scrapping code from .NET. Some years ago, I used Attachmate products and they were the best terminal emulation software I used at that time. Price was fair, too, and much lower than the competitors. Perl combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski
Unfortunately, we have a dual MS SNA Server 4.0 + MS HIS environment; my understanding, told to me by those who are supposed to know, is that the HIS server is using LU connections that don't present the application, they just establish sessions for things like printing and receiving transactions from the host. The old SNA servers don't have the capability of establishing TN3270 sessions between the client and the server (which in turn still talks SNA to the host) do they? What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable . . . and yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? -- Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.
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Unfortunately, we have a dual MS SNA Server 4.0 + MS HIS environment; my understanding, told to me by those who are supposed to know, is that the HIS server is using LU connections that don't present the application, they just establish sessions for things like printing and receiving transactions from the host. The old SNA servers don't have the capability of establishing TN3270 sessions between the client and the server (which in turn still talks SNA to the host) do they? What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable . . . and yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? -- Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.
John Kuhn wrote: The old SNA servers don't have the capability of establishing TN3270 sessions between the client and the server (which in turn still talks SNA to the host) do they? Actually, they do, because it's what we used 5 years ago, when I used those Attachmate products I mentioned. Just don't ask me how to do it, it wasn't me that configured it :) But if really need to use SNA, I cannot see another way of doing it without resorting to OLE Automation or WinHLLAPI or those Macro languages available on most terminal emulation software. :sigh: Bear in mind that it has been quite a time since I last used SNA, so check with Attachmate, maybe they have something newer today... Perl combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski
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John Kuhn wrote: The old SNA servers don't have the capability of establishing TN3270 sessions between the client and the server (which in turn still talks SNA to the host) do they? Actually, they do, because it's what we used 5 years ago, when I used those Attachmate products I mentioned. Just don't ask me how to do it, it wasn't me that configured it :) But if really need to use SNA, I cannot see another way of doing it without resorting to OLE Automation or WinHLLAPI or those Macro languages available on most terminal emulation software. :sigh: Bear in mind that it has been quite a time since I last used SNA, so check with Attachmate, maybe they have something newer today... Perl combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski
Daniel, Thanks for your feedback. We'll look into those alternatives. Regards, JAK What a piece of work is man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable . . . and yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? -- Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.