Brad Stiles wrote: I'm not convinced there is any such thing as an "IT project". There are loads of "business projects" which include IT components, though. After 25 years I'm convinced there are IT projects that may, if completed, serve a business need. Really doesn't matter which way around you frame it, all the successful projects have been technology led, all the bad ones, business led. That is, where the manager, for instance, is from the business side and has no technical competence at all; the expectations go from unrealistic to demanding to desperate as they struggle to understand what it is they are supposed to be managing. The problem always appears to be that the non-technical manager simply has no idea how any of this works, what the real complexities and issues are or, in particular, how to manage the people. By the time they figure it out, for the most part, it's too late. Pardon my cynicism, been around too long to believe that there are any magic bullets or that one way of doing things is the best. That is why I still think that projects that are technology led and people (that is, the team players) focused work the best, regardless of what flavor of management-speak you color it in with. "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me