I used to work as a SysAdmin, when I was given the opportunity to get into development. I have no formal training whatsoever (besides 3 years CS in High School with Pascal), and I can write good, clean code according to standards better than most CS grads. I don't think it's really a matter of getting formal education or not. If you don't stay interested, involved and continually evolve to new languages, practices and developments, you are not going to be any good anyway. I know of CS graduates who work in management in various comapanies who couldn't write decent code or development better solutions because they have fallen behind on the standards of today. In the 4-odd years I've been developing professionally I've learn't C#, some C++, SQL, Javascript, some VB (because of legacy code), Python and PHP. And I can write intricate code to solve difficult problems only because I've stayed involved. I've learn't more from community support groups (like our local .NET group - SADeveloper.net), Microsoft events like DevDays and TechEd, and networking and learning from some brilliant developers than I would have learn't in the same period doing some formal degree. Yes you can get a theoretical level of understanding, but I think the formal training (degrees that is) "boxes" your mind, you forget to think creatively and out of the box on problems.

________________________________ Dewald Troskie GIS Developer "There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't"