Michael A. Barnhart wrote: I hope they were doing some server side programming and not just basic apps. If only, if only... Here's a smidgeon of what we've been doing. Project 4[^] Real useful, yeah... I'm not sure which is worse, that we're not given anything remotely challenging or that the instructor tells us exactly how to do it. First, there's no creative freedom allowed, second, how can you learn when you're told exaclty what to do. And yes, we get docked if we do it a different way than what is outlined, unless we really improve on the program and go beyond what was required. The question "Do computers think?" is the same as "Can submarines swim?" DragonFire Software Jeryth