True, we have different points of view =]. I also have nothing against criticism, as long as it's aiming at the code and it can improve the code, and I don't mean improving by adding comments or changing names =] ( as I wrote earlyer I find this kind of help pointles). I enjoyed our conversation and I realy aprishiate your opinions on the subject.

shiftedbitmonkey wrote:

Its not about honoring his/her code. I'm honoring the code by providing constructive criticism. By pointing out how it could be better I'm honoring the author.

I dont't want to be rude but pointing out to the author that his code can be better if he adds more commnets or he'll use better names... From the technical point of view the code its functionality, its ability to do its wark faster more efficient is pointless. Coders are individuals and they always do things their way =]. I gues we are like elderly people :) we do things our way and don't even try to tell us it's the wrong way :laugh: . In many cases when you try to improve someones code by pointing out variuos flaws in logic like use Lists instead of arrays or use stored procedures instead of tons of selects to improve performence is done after consutling wiht author. But even then if you only talk about commnets ,guy will look at you and most likely say something like "...GET OUT BEFORE I @#$@! YOU..." :laugh: . So in my opinion pointing out missing commnets is usless. As for the last part of Your reply:

shiftedbitmonkey wrote:

How can you be inspired if you don't understand what you're looking at? For instance... get inspired by this:

for (i=0, k=0; i < N && k < NW; k++)
for (j=0; j < NF && i < N; j++, i++)
{
ttym[i] = M(tty[i]);
rm.fds_b[k] |= ttym[i];
}

I would like to answer your question with my own: If I show You best page from the best book ever written will you be understand the book?? Code You opsted is just a loop and while I agree with You that variables are unreadable the fact is this is just a part of a code taken out of context. But if I would look at that loop about 5 - 6 years ago I would learn that I can write not only standard for loops but even more complicated ones like the one you provided. I wouldn't understand the whole concept (becouse I don't see the whole picture) however it's not the point with open source becouse You always see everything. ;)

shiftedbitmonkey wrote:

So, while I appreciate you defending the contributer, I think you misinterpret constructive criticism for attacks.

I've looked over posts serval times and I realize you are right. I misinterpreted criticism for attacks mainly becouse I never look for ready answers but rather for inspiration in others code (that's why I never cared about missing comments etc, but I do care about the idea behind the code). And I will always honor programmers choice of not puting comments or using cryptic naming in his code. It's his work and It is he who will shape it as he pleases for us it's just an inspiration.

I wanted just to point out the fact that we are all used to get everything the easy way(tons of comments, etc). What I'm trying to say is - even if someone releses his code as open source without comments or with funny naming conventions =] he is still giving us his work for free. And the least we can do is not to jump on the creator of the code for not writing his code as we like it. As for the topic of open cource. I think it's one of the best ways to expand our knowledge. We all must keep in mind that there were programmers long before us (especially before me) and they all had the same problems and solved them. They share their knowledge with us so we can build on top of it and pushing forward. Many programmers have their own way of doing things and it's hard to get rid of the habbits ;) (I for example love to work at night. Others dont't put comments :-D ). I never had problems with shearing my code with others (and my coding technic is creazy :D ) but not once I've heard arguments like those in the first post. Buttom line - If someone gave us his code lets not point out what we think is wrong but be greatfull to him for shearing his knowledge with us. PS. I may be still of topic a little but... :)

I have heard such arguments many times. "...Why he couldn't give me his code on a silver plate..." People often think that if you find someone elses code they can take it. People don't take under consideration that some one put a lot of work in developing that code. So what that they use not very clear naming conventions so they don't put comments, they use goto. It's theirs choise becouse this is theirs code. When I develop something I really don't care if some one in the future will have problem reading it and understanding (if you want to use my work that's fine with me but I wan't you to work for it ;p to understand it, not just scroll thrugh it and decide - "that's it"). People tend to use things they have no idea of and if something goes wrong the blame the author. IF U DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS THEN DON'T TUCH IT!!! this is what I'm always telling people. Take you time, study it, learn as much as posible about the thing and if after all that you'll don't understand how it works then I think it's time to realize this "toy" is not for you. Yes comments help. Nowdays people can do online and literaly copy paste someone elses work not even bothering to really study it. I myself avoid putting comments in my code. When I add them during development I remove them at the end. Comments, coding conventions, etc. ... they bind you to a schema. It's a lot more fun to code intuitively, to follow your guts when coding, when reading code samples without comments =].