The Wonder of Shari'a
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Alvaro Mendez wrote:
bring in the experts and have them train the Iraqis in getting their nation going.
That includes leaving troops there. A nation needs trained soldiers to protect itself. After the invasion, had we packed up and left, except for a few suits knowledgable in politics, what do you think would have happened? Do you really believe everyone would act like good little neighbors and help the Iraqis, or at best wait until they pulled themselves together? You need to train soldiers, have enough experience for the leaders to bubble up to the top, determine what rules you are going to enforce, etc... How quickly and easily do people think this should happen?? BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wrightbrianwelsch wrote:
That includes leaving troops there. A nation needs trained soldiers to protect itself.
Yes, and Iraq had trained soldiers before the invasion...
brianwelsch wrote:
After the invasion, had we packed up and left, except for a few suits knowledgable in politics, what do you think would have happened? Do you really believe everyone would act like good little neighbors and help the Iraqis, or at best wait until they pulled themselves together?
That's a good question, and unfortunately it's likely that chaos would have ensued. :sigh: However, before the war, Iraq was a relatively stable country. There was a chain of command and an infrastructure in place. If we had simply gone in and replaced the command at the top, things could have remained stable and the country would have began reforming towards freedom and democracy in a less violent fashion. I know; it sounds like a long shot, but I would have tried it. I guess I'm dreaming of those Hollywood movies where the Arnold dude goes in and kills all the evil mobsters and everyone lives happily ever after. At any rate, I believe our measure for victory should have been the capture and elimination of the tyrannical regime. Then we would have brought in the "suits" and headed home. Had things gone well or not afterwards it shouldn't have mattered to us. We would have tried to steer them in the right direction, but if things got out of control, then so be it. We didn't need to continue spending our resources and exposing our troops to unnecessary dangers -- dangers brought along most likely because of our continued presence there. But now it's too late. :sigh: If we leave with the way things are today, it will look like we didn't complete the mission -- in fact, that we failed. And if we stay, it's very likely that the suicide bombings and attacks on our troops will go on and the mission will continue to look like a failure. Alvaro
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
but ask him a direct question such as "Do you support sharia laws?".
um...look at the previous 10 posts. Thats exactly what I asked him. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
um...look at the previous 10 posts. Thats exactly what I asked him.
So are you going to try to paint sharia in a good light???? I would love to see this. That's your original question. It is clear that you're not interested in his opinions about sharia laws. You've already made up your mind about that. What is clear though, is that you're seeking to attack him as a person, by making him look like some kind of monster for supporting sharia laws. I think he understood this, and refused to answer your question. I think it was also fairly clear that he did not try to paint sharia laws in good light. At least not your version of sharia laws. I practice martial arts, and I really enjoy that. Meanwhile, idiots beat other people up on the streets, using techniques from martial arts. Suppose this rape case was an assault case instead, in which the perpretrator had used martial arts techniques. If you had hinted that martial arts was the source of evil in the assault, because it allowed the perpetrator to severely injure the other guy, to which Anna had replied "That is truly sick", I would also have agreed that it is truly sick, and I would also have pointed out that this has nothing to do with martial arts (for reasons I will not go in to here, because it's beside the point). Had you replied to me, asking if I'm trying to paint martial arts in a good light, I would've reacted somewhat like Adnan, as any other person would have, when given such a disingenuous question.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
so my question remains "This is not truly a shariyah"
That's not a question. Can't you see that ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Lol, it's the classical mistake of actually responding to this guy. You can't communicate with someone uncapable of understanding what: 1. A proper argument is 2. Logic 3. English 4. Rationality I wish I could filter users on this forum.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
so my question remains "This is not truly a shariyah"
That's not a question. Can't you see that ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
That's not a question. Can't you see that ?
and that`s nt sharia which is trying to convince me keep your tail out of it when you have no idea
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Lol, it's the classical mistake of actually responding to this guy. You can't communicate with someone uncapable of understanding what: 1. A proper argument is 2. Logic 3. English 4. Rationality I wish I could filter users on this forum.
you have come out of hibernation ?
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
This is not truly a shariyah
Ok, one more time, this is not sharia, fine. Now lets move on.... Now, again. Do you...support....sharia....law? My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
Ok, one more time, this is not sharia, fine. Now lets move on.... Now, again. Do you...support....sharia....law?
now you are learning something,you have learnt after several replies of mine that you were doing a mistake to link up an incident which is shiarya which was not good at all, its similar link invastion of iraq/afghan wars with bible or crusaded and now you main Question, Yes I accept Shariyah law.Shariyah is nothing but following rules of Quran for different fields of like like law,politics ,science etc etc..
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-- modified at 7:10 Friday 13th January, 2006
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kgaddy wrote:
um...look at the previous 10 posts. Thats exactly what I asked him.
So are you going to try to paint sharia in a good light???? I would love to see this. That's your original question. It is clear that you're not interested in his opinions about sharia laws. You've already made up your mind about that. What is clear though, is that you're seeking to attack him as a person, by making him look like some kind of monster for supporting sharia laws. I think he understood this, and refused to answer your question. I think it was also fairly clear that he did not try to paint sharia laws in good light. At least not your version of sharia laws. I practice martial arts, and I really enjoy that. Meanwhile, idiots beat other people up on the streets, using techniques from martial arts. Suppose this rape case was an assault case instead, in which the perpretrator had used martial arts techniques. If you had hinted that martial arts was the source of evil in the assault, because it allowed the perpetrator to severely injure the other guy, to which Anna had replied "That is truly sick", I would also have agreed that it is truly sick, and I would also have pointed out that this has nothing to do with martial arts (for reasons I will not go in to here, because it's beside the point). Had you replied to me, asking if I'm trying to paint martial arts in a good light, I would've reacted somewhat like Adnan, as any other person would have, when given such a disingenuous question.
well,thts what i was trying to tel him,but as you mentioned,he had clearly made up his mind,this guy always takes time to understand.
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He's astounded that this moron can't answer a simple question, I would say. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
and ur such a fucki ng retard tht you have NO idea what he has been trying to do,READ the whole damn post,i know its hard for your brain cells to figure out the whole thing
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Why do you bother with this idiot ? I knew before I read the responses that he would not answer you. Next time he talk to you, he will tell you that he answered you and you refused to respond. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Why do you bother with this idiot ? I knew before I read the responses that he would not answer you. Next time he talk to you, he will tell you that he answered you and you refused to respond. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
When this[^] have understood what i am trying to say,why are you having difficulty to get it? obviously,you are a dumbass or i say some orthodox christian who believes that Christianity is the only true religion on earth(day dreaming)
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kgaddy wrote:
um...look at the previous 10 posts. Thats exactly what I asked him.
So are you going to try to paint sharia in a good light???? I would love to see this. That's your original question. It is clear that you're not interested in his opinions about sharia laws. You've already made up your mind about that. What is clear though, is that you're seeking to attack him as a person, by making him look like some kind of monster for supporting sharia laws. I think he understood this, and refused to answer your question. I think it was also fairly clear that he did not try to paint sharia laws in good light. At least not your version of sharia laws. I practice martial arts, and I really enjoy that. Meanwhile, idiots beat other people up on the streets, using techniques from martial arts. Suppose this rape case was an assault case instead, in which the perpretrator had used martial arts techniques. If you had hinted that martial arts was the source of evil in the assault, because it allowed the perpetrator to severely injure the other guy, to which Anna had replied "That is truly sick", I would also have agreed that it is truly sick, and I would also have pointed out that this has nothing to do with martial arts (for reasons I will not go in to here, because it's beside the point). Had you replied to me, asking if I'm trying to paint martial arts in a good light, I would've reacted somewhat like Adnan, as any other person would have, when given such a disingenuous question.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's your original question.
Yes, that was my origional question. But then I conceded that and asked him many times, "Do you support sharia?"
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It is clear that you're not interested in his opinions about sharia laws.
Oh yes I am!
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
, by making him look like some kind of monster for supporting sharia laws.
No, If he does support sharia laws he is a monster and that is why he will not answer. If a German in the 1940s supported the "final solution" does that make him a monster? While sharia is not that extreme, it clearly condones human rights abuses. Ask any woman in Afganistan today. Martial arts are not laws you subject people too. It's a tool. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
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kgaddy wrote:
Ok, one more time, this is not sharia, fine. Now lets move on.... Now, again. Do you...support....sharia....law?
now you are learning something,you have learnt after several replies of mine that you were doing a mistake to link up an incident which is shiarya which was not good at all, its similar link invastion of iraq/afghan wars with bible or crusaded and now you main Question, Yes I accept Shariyah law.Shariyah is nothing but following rules of Quran for different fields of like like law,politics ,science etc etc..
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-- modified at 7:10 Friday 13th January, 2006
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
now you are learning something,you have learnt after several replies of mine that you were doing a mistake to link up an incident which is shiarya which was not good at all,
You give yourself too much credit. So you believe that all people forced to live under such law be muslium? And if they do not are they to become dimmis? My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's your original question.
Yes, that was my origional question. But then I conceded that and asked him many times, "Do you support sharia?"
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It is clear that you're not interested in his opinions about sharia laws.
Oh yes I am!
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
, by making him look like some kind of monster for supporting sharia laws.
No, If he does support sharia laws he is a monster and that is why he will not answer. If a German in the 1940s supported the "final solution" does that make him a monster? While sharia is not that extreme, it clearly condones human rights abuses. Ask any woman in Afganistan today. Martial arts are not laws you subject people too. It's a tool. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
No, If he does support sharia laws he is a monster and that is why he will not answer.
That's your point of view. I think he's determined not to answer you, because he knows you have already judged him. Would you care to confront anyone who has already passed judgment on you? I sure wouldn't. I would flip the finger, and walk away.
kgaddy wrote:
Yes, that was my origional question. But then I conceded that and asked him many times, "Do you support sharia?"
You could've made the concession a tad more obvious IMO. I think he would've responded more favorably then.
kgaddy wrote:
If a German in the 1940s supported the "final solution" does that make him a monster? While sharia is not that extreme, it clearly condones human rights abuses. Ask any woman in Afganistan today.
I'm not sure if I'm prepared to argue with you on that matter. The ideology of the Nazis were political, but appears almost as religious in some aspects. But then again, when taken to their extremes, there is little or no difference between political and religious zeal... Personally, I believe that sharia is a vile way of governing a society.
kgaddy wrote:
Martial arts are not laws you subject people too. It's a tool.
Exactly. I think Adnan sees sharia laws as a tool which was used badly in the alleged death sentence.
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kgaddy wrote:
No, If he does support sharia laws he is a monster and that is why he will not answer.
That's your point of view. I think he's determined not to answer you, because he knows you have already judged him. Would you care to confront anyone who has already passed judgment on you? I sure wouldn't. I would flip the finger, and walk away.
kgaddy wrote:
Yes, that was my origional question. But then I conceded that and asked him many times, "Do you support sharia?"
You could've made the concession a tad more obvious IMO. I think he would've responded more favorably then.
kgaddy wrote:
If a German in the 1940s supported the "final solution" does that make him a monster? While sharia is not that extreme, it clearly condones human rights abuses. Ask any woman in Afganistan today.
I'm not sure if I'm prepared to argue with you on that matter. The ideology of the Nazis were political, but appears almost as religious in some aspects. But then again, when taken to their extremes, there is little or no difference between political and religious zeal... Personally, I believe that sharia is a vile way of governing a society.
kgaddy wrote:
Martial arts are not laws you subject people too. It's a tool.
Exactly. I think Adnan sees sharia laws as a tool which was used badly in the alleged death sentence.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's your point of view. I think he's determined not to answer you, because he knows you have already judged him. Would you care to confront anyone who has already passed judgment on you? I sure wouldn't. I would flip the finger, and walk away.
Well It looks like your opinion also:
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Personally, I believe that sharia is a vile way of governing a society.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
I think he would've responded more favorably then.
No he would not. I've asked questions like this before.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Martial arts are not laws you subject people too. It's a tool. Exactly. I think Adnan sees sharia laws as a tool which was used badly in the alleged death sentence.
It's not the same. You cannot impose martial arts on me, but you could impose sharia law on me. Sharia is a law, martial arts is the gun to enfore a law. If that makes sense. In other words, in our western society, I can reject martial arts. It does not stop you from enjoying it. But I could not do the same to sharia (reject it). I would be killed. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" -- modified at 10:09 Friday 13th January, 2006
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's your point of view. I think he's determined not to answer you, because he knows you have already judged him. Would you care to confront anyone who has already passed judgment on you? I sure wouldn't. I would flip the finger, and walk away.
Well It looks like your opinion also:
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Personally, I believe that sharia is a vile way of governing a society.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
I think he would've responded more favorably then.
No he would not. I've asked questions like this before.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Martial arts are not laws you subject people too. It's a tool. Exactly. I think Adnan sees sharia laws as a tool which was used badly in the alleged death sentence.
It's not the same. You cannot impose martial arts on me, but you could impose sharia law on me. Sharia is a law, martial arts is the gun to enfore a law. If that makes sense. In other words, in our western society, I can reject martial arts. It does not stop you from enjoying it. But I could not do the same to sharia (reject it). I would be killed. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" -- modified at 10:09 Friday 13th January, 2006
kgaddy wrote:
Well It looks like your opinion also:
Yes, it is, and I never claimed it wasn't. I believe that the way sharia seems to be implemented, is a vile form of governing. On the other hand, I don't think I fully comprehend the sharia laws, so it could be that the idea is sound, but the implementation is just wrong. I'm fairly sure though that there's something wrong with the sharia laws that allows this crap to happen. Anyway, if I had wanted to know what Adnan thinks about sharia, I would not have advertised my judgement beforehand. Don't show your hand until you've been called! ;)
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
now you are learning something,you have learnt after several replies of mine that you were doing a mistake to link up an incident which is shiarya which was not good at all,
You give yourself too much credit. So you believe that all people forced to live under such law be muslium? And if they do not are they to become dimmis? My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
*yawn* i am back to my question "go and read what i had written before"
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*yawn* i am back to my question "go and read what i had written before"
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
i am back to my question "go and read what i had written before"
um..that's not a question. And besides, you have never expresses your position on dhimmitude. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
i am back to my question "go and read what i had written before"
um..that's not a question. And besides, you have never expresses your position on dhimmitude. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
that's not a question
I`m sorry for this mistake,that was my reply to you
kgaddy wrote:
you have never expresses your position on dhimmitude
Jorgen has clearly explained you the reason /Regds
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kgaddy wrote:
Well It looks like your opinion also:
Yes, it is, and I never claimed it wasn't. I believe that the way sharia seems to be implemented, is a vile form of governing. On the other hand, I don't think I fully comprehend the sharia laws, so it could be that the idea is sound, but the implementation is just wrong. I'm fairly sure though that there's something wrong with the sharia laws that allows this crap to happen. Anyway, if I had wanted to know what Adnan thinks about sharia, I would not have advertised my judgement beforehand. Don't show your hand until you've been called! ;)
that kgaddy will have difficulty to understand it,just for sake of knowledge,i try to elaborate it. the literall arabic meanings of Shariyah is "Road",often used as sea-shore as well,in Islam,it could be translated as "Road to guidance" in english. What Is shariyah[^],from the site: The law system inspired by the Koran, the Sunna, older Arabic law systems, parallel traditions, and work of Muslim scholars over the two first centuries of Islam. i would like to add my words,i can`t say I would ne 100% correct to explain it as i am not some authentic scholar,would try my best,else if one is sincre to know,he/she could seek alternative muslim source.... Shariyah is related with muslims only,non-muslims have notthing to do with it since its irrelevent for them. second shariyah is not something which is imposed to someone,as my statment is supported by this verse of quran: And now have We set thee (O Muhammad) on a clear road of (Our) commandment; so follow it, and follow not the whims of those who know not.(Quran:45:18) so this verse mentions that its good for muslims to follow it,if not,its their loss..its like that if a mother advises his son not to smoke,she can just advise him,if he lsitens,if not,bad for him,its not mom`s burden now that she didn`t aware the her kid. there are many things in Islam which are MUST, forinstance Prayers(Salat),FASt etc..Shariyah wasn`t asked to be must otherwise every muslim country had shariyah otherwise we were declared as non-muslims. The author further says,which does support my point of view mentioned in the link: Sharia is often referred to as Islamic law, but this is wrong, as only a small part is irrefutably based upon the core Islamic text, the Koran. A correct definition would either be "Islam-inspired", "Islam-derived" or "the law system of Muslims". there is clear difference between implementing the actual system or get inspiration of it.. let me take example of Interest,in arabic its called Ribah,in Islam,Interest is NOT allowed at all,there are banks in pakistan who take interests,while there are bank in Pakistan who are termed as ISLAMIC BANK since they are interest free,you may say those islamic banks followed the Shariyah. its also said that Shariyah or Islam dont support democracy,that is also wrong,the biggest example of democrac
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kgaddy wrote:
that's not a question
I`m sorry for this mistake,that was my reply to you
kgaddy wrote:
you have never expresses your position on dhimmitude
Jorgen has clearly explained you the reason /Regds
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Jorgen has clearly explained you the reason
No he did not. If you are so passionate about sharia, can you please justify dhimmitude. I personally am against it (for obvious reasons). But maybe you can shed some light on the subject. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"