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  3. 2005 or not 2005, that is the question?

2005 or not 2005, that is the question?

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  • A Anna Jayne Metcalfe

    Don't forget the extra dose of random instability! :doh: Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

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    Paul Watson
    wrote on last edited by
    #11

    VA or VS2005? regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!

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    • N Nitron

      Paul Watson wrote:

      the enhanced intellisense, auto-complete, code-snippets

      Sounds like 2003 w/ Visual Assist to me. :suss: ~Nitron.

      ññòòïðïðB A
      start

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      Paul Watson
      wrote on last edited by
      #12

      Which costs an extra $129 per developer (we get VS2005 in our MSDN sub.) I don't use VA, gave it a bash once but it didn't feel integrated enough. So now I get all the useful VA functionality as part of the IDE and firmly integrated. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!

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      • P Paul Watson

        Which costs an extra $129 per developer (we get VS2005 in our MSDN sub.) I don't use VA, gave it a bash once but it didn't feel integrated enough. So now I get all the useful VA functionality as part of the IDE and firmly integrated. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!

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        Nish Nishant
        wrote on last edited by
        #13

        Paul Watson wrote:

        we get VS2005 in our MSDN sub

        Do you have separate subs for you and Brian? or do you both use the DVDs from that one single sub? I found out a while ago that an MSDN sub is for a single developer - so if you both are using it, technically it'd fall under piracy. Most people don't know this I think. Many small companies in India use 1 sub with 5-6 devs. Regards, Nish

        My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

        -- modified at 9:35 Friday 27th January, 2006

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        • N Nish Nishant

          Paul Watson wrote:

          we get VS2005 in our MSDN sub

          Do you have separate subs for you and Brian? or do you both use the DVDs from that one single sub? I found out a while ago that an MSDN sub is for a single developer - so if you both are using it, technically it'd fall under piracy. Most people don't know this I think. Many small companies in India use 1 sub with 5-6 devs. Regards, Nish

          My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

          -- modified at 9:35 Friday 27th January, 2006

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          Paul Watson
          wrote on last edited by
          #14

          We have the academic alliance sub. and we have dev. licenses for half of Ireland. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!

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          • N Nish Nishant

            Elaine, Nearly every married man would advise a single guy not to get married, but at the same time they continue to remain married. When I was running around trying to buy a car here, because the cold was too unbearable for a "pedestrian/public-transit" way of life, nearly everyone here advised me not to get a car, and that I should wait till summer - but everyone who advised me had a car(or cars), and wouldn't go one day without it. It's the same with VS 2005. Almost all of us (self included) who've been cribbing here about how it's slow, how something is broken etc. will continue to use it. None of us (or very very few of us) would go back to 2003. So, do the right thing - install 2005, and after you do that, you can join the rest of us in bad-mouthing it here on the lounge :-) Regards, Nish

            My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

            -- modified at 8:30 Friday 27th January, 2006

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            David Crow
            wrote on last edited by
            #15

            Nishant Sivakumar wrote:

            ...nearly everyone here advised me not to get a car, and that I should wait till summer...

            Which is odd advice at best. Winter, especially wet Mondays, is the best time to buy a car as the dealerships are more interested in negotiating with you than they would be in the spring or summer when the demand is higher.

            "The greatest good you can do for another is not just to share your riches but to reveal to him his own." - Benjamin Disraeli

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            • P Paul Watson

              We have the academic alliance sub. and we have dev. licenses for half of Ireland. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!

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              Nish Nishant
              wrote on last edited by
              #16

              Paul Watson wrote:

              We have the academic alliance sub. and we have dev. licenses for half of Ireland.

              Cool. I bet thay won't give that in India. Half of India is 0.5 Billion ;-) Regards, Nish

              My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

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              • N Nish Nishant

                Elaine, Nearly every married man would advise a single guy not to get married, but at the same time they continue to remain married. When I was running around trying to buy a car here, because the cold was too unbearable for a "pedestrian/public-transit" way of life, nearly everyone here advised me not to get a car, and that I should wait till summer - but everyone who advised me had a car(or cars), and wouldn't go one day without it. It's the same with VS 2005. Almost all of us (self included) who've been cribbing here about how it's slow, how something is broken etc. will continue to use it. None of us (or very very few of us) would go back to 2003. So, do the right thing - install 2005, and after you do that, you can join the rest of us in bad-mouthing it here on the lounge :-) Regards, Nish

                My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

                -- modified at 8:30 Friday 27th January, 2006

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                RichardGrimmer
                wrote on last edited by
                #17

                Nishant Sivakumar wrote:

                None of us (or very very few of us) would go back to 2003.

                tee hee - damn straight.....even firing up 2k3 gives me the willies lol....though it would be nice if the Visual Studio version selector actually gave the option of opening in 2K3 for a 2K3 project file, rather than just blasting it stright into 2K5 then moaning that it's a 2K3 project....or perhaps I'm missing the point - perhaps stupidly assumed that a "version selector" would allow me to "select" a "version" of VS to use..... On the plus side - don't think I could live without "Surround With" now - saved my bacon more than a few times :D "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox -- modified at 10:09 Friday 27th January, 2006

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                • L Lost User

                  I've seen so many posts aboujt problems with VS2005, slow runtime etc. I'm wondering if it's worth just using VS2003. Comments please. Elaine (hestistant fluffy tigress) The tigress is here :-D

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                  Nemanja Trifunovic
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #18

                  For native C++ development? Pros: improved debugger (especially Call browser) and somewhat improved compiler (nothing dramatical, though) Cons: Slow and unstable IDE, stupid "security" warnings, and STL appears to be slower. However, if you do any XSLT, you should install VC2005 without any hesitations.

                  My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.

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                  • N Nish Nishant

                    Paul Watson wrote:

                    We have the academic alliance sub. and we have dev. licenses for half of Ireland.

                    Cool. I bet thay won't give that in India. Half of India is 0.5 Billion ;-) Regards, Nish

                    My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

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                    Paul Watson
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #19

                    hehe indeed. Though I was just being facetious about half of Ireland. I just meant we have a load of licenses (and the funny bit is only two devs in the whole company use Microsoft dev products (Brian and I.) The rest are Java/C++/etc. heads.) regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!

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                    • A Anna Jayne Metcalfe

                      We're unlikely to move to it for our mainstream C++ projects until SP1 is out, although I am consdering moving ResOrg to it in order to get some more detailed experience of the platforms performance with C++ projects. However, any ASP.NET, C# or XSLT work we do is likely to be under VS2005 for obvious reasons. Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

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                      Lost User
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #20

                      BTW, I found a nasty resource editor bug in VS2005 the other day - basically, trying to change the language of a resource to "English (USA)" adds a duff entry to the .rc file, so it won't compile! Waiting for SP1 is probably a good idea.

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                      • F feline_dracoform

                        is most of your work in .NET? having been using VS2005 for C++ for about 2 days (so i am just SO experienced with it ;) ) i am getting the feeling that most of the new features you are really going to care about are aimed at C# and presumably other .NET languages. oh yes, do you have at least 4 gig of ram in your machine? while VS2005 will load on a machine with 512 meg of ram, with our solution in it (86 projects) the machine is basically unusable every time the IDE goes off to think about something, and it just took literally 5 minutes to KILL the IDE so we could shut down the machine and put in more ram. speaking as a "well whats new?" programmer using C++ and the Qt library, so totally uninterested in the new Microsoft libraries the new features are not really having any positive impact on me. using Visual Assist helps of course, so i am not aware of the apparently much improved intellisense in the IDE - i am just not using it. zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness

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                        Eytukan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #21

                        4 gig of ram ??:wtf: seriouly speaking , i should sell my pc to get one here. :(

                        VuNic

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                        • N Nish Nishant

                          Elaine, Nearly every married man would advise a single guy not to get married, but at the same time they continue to remain married. When I was running around trying to buy a car here, because the cold was too unbearable for a "pedestrian/public-transit" way of life, nearly everyone here advised me not to get a car, and that I should wait till summer - but everyone who advised me had a car(or cars), and wouldn't go one day without it. It's the same with VS 2005. Almost all of us (self included) who've been cribbing here about how it's slow, how something is broken etc. will continue to use it. None of us (or very very few of us) would go back to 2003. So, do the right thing - install 2005, and after you do that, you can join the rest of us in bad-mouthing it here on the lounge :-) Regards, Nish

                          My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

                          -- modified at 8:30 Friday 27th January, 2006

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                          Eytukan
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #22

                          ahhh.. what an explanation!, quite philosophical!!:-O

                          VuNic

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                          • N Nish Nishant

                            Elaine, Nearly every married man would advise a single guy not to get married, but at the same time they continue to remain married. When I was running around trying to buy a car here, because the cold was too unbearable for a "pedestrian/public-transit" way of life, nearly everyone here advised me not to get a car, and that I should wait till summer - but everyone who advised me had a car(or cars), and wouldn't go one day without it. It's the same with VS 2005. Almost all of us (self included) who've been cribbing here about how it's slow, how something is broken etc. will continue to use it. None of us (or very very few of us) would go back to 2003. So, do the right thing - install 2005, and after you do that, you can join the rest of us in bad-mouthing it here on the lounge :-) Regards, Nish

                            My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

                            -- modified at 8:30 Friday 27th January, 2006

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                            Albert Pascual
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #23

                            What kind of car did you buy? Al

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                            • A Albert Pascual

                              What kind of car did you buy? Al

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                              Nish Nishant
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #24

                              Albert Pascual wrote:

                              What kind of car did you buy?

                              Hyundai Elantra - 2000 model. Regards, Nish

                              My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

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                              • N Nish Nishant

                                Albert Pascual wrote:

                                What kind of car did you buy?

                                Hyundai Elantra - 2000 model. Regards, Nish

                                My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

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                                Albert Pascual
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #25

                                When I moved to the US in 2000 I purchased a 12 year old Ford Mustang! Coming from Europe that was the car to buy! You should buy a Canadian car .... wait ... never mind. After I drove it to the ground, I purchased a BIG SUV! Al

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                                • P Paul Watson

                                  VA or VS2005? regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!

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                                  Anna Jayne Metcalfe
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #26

                                  VS2005 of course. VA is about as stable as they come. :) Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

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                                  • L Lost User

                                    BTW, I found a nasty resource editor bug in VS2005 the other day - basically, trying to change the language of a resource to "English (USA)" adds a duff entry to the .rc file, so it won't compile! Waiting for SP1 is probably a good idea.

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                                    Anna Jayne Metcalfe
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #27

                                    So I heard. The word "eek!" springs to mind. :~ Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • N Nish Nishant

                                      Paul Watson wrote:

                                      we get VS2005 in our MSDN sub

                                      Do you have separate subs for you and Brian? or do you both use the DVDs from that one single sub? I found out a while ago that an MSDN sub is for a single developer - so if you both are using it, technically it'd fall under piracy. Most people don't know this I think. Many small companies in India use 1 sub with 5-6 devs. Regards, Nish

                                      My blog : Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET

                                      -- modified at 9:35 Friday 27th January, 2006

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                                      Michael P Butler
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #28

                                      Nishant Sivakumar wrote:

                                      Many small companies in India use 1 sub with 5-6 devs.

                                      Not just India. I know of a lot of UK companies that use 1 sub for a number of developers. Not to mention these developers also then install the tools on their home machines. I'm very surprised that Microsoft haven't put a stop to this practise. Mind you I guess the more people that are using MS Development tools, the applications available for Windows. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]

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                                      • M Marc Clifton

                                        I haven't noticed the runtime is slower, but the IDE is slower, made up for by really great Intellisense, and debugging is really doggy. If you're debugging, just have one or two files open, otherwise the IDE puts little lock icons on each file's tab and then removes them, for EVERY single step. With 9 or 10 tabbed files, it takes more time rendering the stupid tabs than it does stepping though the code, and I have a pretty zippy machine. If it helps any, I first created a completely separate project tree and tested the build and exe under VS2005 (all WinForm stuff, no ASP.NET). Some deprecated functions, but nothing that really broke. That was a good sign. I killed a few annoying things, like that stupid dialog popping up when you hit Alt-Tab (thanks to everyone who showed me how), and things like MyXaml and AUT run fine. Actually, .NET 2.0 has reflection performance improvements (think XAML). So, after proving it was a stable enough platform for what I do, there were the motivations: Some cool stuff in .NET 2.0 (compression, AutoSize property on controls, other useful classes) and in particular, there are methods like "Try...", so instead of first asking if something exists and then getting it, or getting it and catching a possible exception, you can use "try" and get bool return plus, if successful, the return value. Great for containers and things like conversions. Especially conversions, because you couldn't know if the conversion would throw an exception without parsing the item you're converting to/from yourself! Seemed stupid, since obviously the conversion routine knows, but would throw an exception. So, fewer exceptions being handled means faster code. And then there's C# 2.0, mainly generics. Not nearly as useful as templates, but strongly typed containers are great. More robust code, fewer runtime "can't convert from Foo to Bar" errors, and so forth. I haven't gotten into anonymous methods and I doubt I'll really ever use nullable types, but different strokes for different folks, right? The downside is I now have a lot of legacy code that while it runs fine, uses .NET 1.1 collections--a thorn, as it were. We need a C# 1.0 to C# 2.0 converter! And NDoc doesn't work with generics, and I had to download the source and compile it under 2.0 to get it to parse 2.0 assemblies, and I have no idea whether NDoc will ever support 2.0 because the primary developer, Kevin, is rather busy. So, that leaves me or someone else to do it, or wait for some other free/commercial product. Fu

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                                        Kevin McFarlane
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #29

                                        Marc Clifton wrote:

                                        And then there's C# 2.0, mainly generics. Not nearly as useful as templates

                                        Templates are more powerful but generics should be good enough for most things, especially when supplemented with the PowerCollections library.

                                        Marc Clifton wrote:

                                        So, that leaves me or someone else to do it, or wait for some other free/commercial product.

                                        There is a commercial doc tool available. I forget the name.

                                        Marc Clifton wrote:

                                        Funny how Microsoft hasn't done it.

                                        Yes, they seem to have cloned evertything else! Kevin

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                                        • L Lost User

                                          BTW, I found a nasty resource editor bug in VS2005 the other day - basically, trying to change the language of a resource to "English (USA)" adds a duff entry to the .rc file, so it won't compile! Waiting for SP1 is probably a good idea.

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                                          GavErry
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #30

                                          The same happens when adding a condition to the resource. I like to have two version blocks, one for debug and another for non-debug builds. Compiles fine, but the resource editor dies when opening the resources for edit. Gavin

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