Anti-VB
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Ed.Poore wrote:
From what I understand many people think that VB coders produces sloppy programs with the mind for completing the program quickly rather than stably.
Well... theres that issue with every language ;P I suppose vb attracts more of such people... vb... visual BASIC... visual BEGINNER's... I took a look at the vb forums here on cp... didn't stay long :| its like WHY?!??!?! :wtf: Also took a look at the C# forums though.... sort of the same issue, a lot of simple questions :doh:
Xoy wrote:
visual BEGINNER's...
You're right here, what people should say when they're asked how they want to program is... Not oh, you know that Office has VB built into it? but... Hang on, Microsoft has a free SDK for .NET development, this is free to start, there's Mono a Linux equivalent though not yet as fully implemented, there's support for ~40 languages so you can pick the one you want. There are the express editions which are free (and will be nice and cheap in the future if you're more serious). Plus if they really want to learn how to program you can get gcc or MinGW and program in ANSI C :) I don't get it why my college teachers for example teach "programming" in Office when C#, VB.NET, IronPython, Boo whatever is so much more powerful and so much cheaper! Plus there's the new beta for SharpDevelop2 out yesterday. Ed
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Xoy wrote:
visual BEGINNER's...
You're right here, what people should say when they're asked how they want to program is... Not oh, you know that Office has VB built into it? but... Hang on, Microsoft has a free SDK for .NET development, this is free to start, there's Mono a Linux equivalent though not yet as fully implemented, there's support for ~40 languages so you can pick the one you want. There are the express editions which are free (and will be nice and cheap in the future if you're more serious). Plus if they really want to learn how to program you can get gcc or MinGW and program in ANSI C :) I don't get it why my college teachers for example teach "programming" in Office when C#, VB.NET, IronPython, Boo whatever is so much more powerful and so much cheaper! Plus there's the new beta for SharpDevelop2 out yesterday. Ed
Ed.Poore wrote:
I don't get it why my college teachers for example teach "programming" in Office when C#, VB.NET, IronPython, Boo whatever is so much more powerful and so much cheaper!
Office :wtf: huh? :confused: (yes I know that office has scripting built in... but why teach programming using office?!)
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Look VB is just a tool same as C++ and has its advantages and disadvantages. From a business stand point VB is great, you can get an app out very quickly without worring about about the little things. I think the people that complain about VB are the JAVA/C#/C++ coders because they think using these language makes them an engineer!! HA, C# which i code in and Java are 4gl languages and C++ is nothing more then a 3gl language and most of us only code for business software which really does not require c++ at all. Think about it if all businesses used c++ apps would never be on time. Thank god for java and .net and yes vb. If you want to feel like an engineer use assembly for microprocesser programming, create your own OS. But otherwiese just accept VB is a tool some people can use well and some just hack it up which is why we are here.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
Look VB is just a tool same as C++ and has its advantages and disadvantages.
Thank you! All this VB bashing is just pointless. Any fool can see that there is no be-all end-all of languages, and while C++ may be the DeWALT power drill of languages, sometimes that's more than you need. Sometimes, you just want the $2.50 Wal*Mart screwdriver. Like that tool, VB is advertised as having capabilities it really does not, but just as the soft metal in the cheap screwdriver makes it perfect for filing down into a crude weapon, VB can be used to fashion many crude implements of torture. And just as the handle on that screwdriver can be easily snapped off so that it can be easily concealed in small, uncomfortable places, VB code can be separated from its runtime and support libraries, and hidden in script or VBA form, perfect for hiding in email or Office documents. So enough with looking down at VB and VB users. Just because some of us may want tools that allow us to write software doesn't mean that others might not want tools that can be used for... other things. :rolleyes:
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PJ Arends wrote:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer, placed on this earth for the amusement of others
No truer words have ever been spoken. :cool: Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Yet I am often critisized for trying to do the job for which I've been deposited on this planet. :( ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb? I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc... but why are so many people also anti-vb? Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them :confused: I mean, fine and all if you are more comfortable with the cish syntax, but whats wrong with vb :confused: (note i'm referring to the language and not the people who use it ;P)
Xoy wrote:
I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc...
I have no objection with someone wanting to use VB. I also have no problem with people who don't bathe, smoke heavily, and eat a lot of fish... ...I just don't want to work with either one of them. ;)
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Look VB is just a tool same as C++ and has its advantages and disadvantages. From a business stand point VB is great, you can get an app out very quickly without worring about about the little things. I think the people that complain about VB are the JAVA/C#/C++ coders because they think using these language makes them an engineer!! HA, C# which i code in and Java are 4gl languages and C++ is nothing more then a 3gl language and most of us only code for business software which really does not require c++ at all. Think about it if all businesses used c++ apps would never be on time. Thank god for java and .net and yes vb. If you want to feel like an engineer use assembly for microprocesser programming, create your own OS. But otherwiese just accept VB is a tool some people can use well and some just hack it up which is why we are here.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
VB is just a tool same as C++
Yeah, it's a tool, but it's kinda like trying to use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
From a business stand point VB is great, you can get an app out very quickly without worring about about the little things.
That's laziness more than it is efficiency.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
Think about it if all businesses used c++ apps would never be on time.
Hmmm, I can't recall an app that I was involved with that was ever delivered late, and every one of them looked better than any VB app you might want to point out.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
But otherwiese just accept VB is a tool some people can use well and some just hack it up which is why we are here.
Nope. As real programmers, we have the god-given right to bash VB (and its small-minded advocates) anytime we see fit... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb? I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc... but why are so many people also anti-vb? Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them :confused: I mean, fine and all if you are more comfortable with the cish syntax, but whats wrong with vb :confused: (note i'm referring to the language and not the people who use it ;P)
Who cares? Get back to work and write some friggin code in whatever language floats your boat. But what I really mean is write some code in whatever language pays your bills. Because languages don't matter paying bills and enjoying your lifestyle are why we do what we do. The rest of this is just wanna-be smack from smackless wanna-be's. Geez enough...:|
I only read CP for the articles. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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Ed.Poore wrote:
I don't get it why my college teachers for example teach "programming" in Office when C#, VB.NET, IronPython, Boo whatever is so much more powerful and so much cheaper!
Office :wtf: huh? :confused: (yes I know that office has scripting built in... but why teach programming using office?!)
Xoy wrote:
(yes I know that office has scripting built in... but why teach programming using office?!)
How else do you expect the next generation of macro viruses to be written? :rolleyes:
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Ed.Poore wrote:
I don't get it why my college teachers for example teach "programming" in Office when C#, VB.NET, IronPython, Boo whatever is so much more powerful and so much cheaper!
Office :wtf: huh? :confused: (yes I know that office has scripting built in... but why teach programming using office?!)
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Xoy wrote:
(yes I know that office has scripting built in... but why teach programming using office?!)
How else do you expect the next generation of macro viruses to be written? :rolleyes:
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They're pretty backwards in college, I've been teaching my teacher almost all the "important" subjects for A-Level. Neither of the two main IT / Computing teachers had even heard of .NET before I said I was going to use if for my project! :doh: Ed
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bakerfishsticks wrote:
VB is just a tool same as C++
Yeah, it's a tool, but it's kinda like trying to use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
From a business stand point VB is great, you can get an app out very quickly without worring about about the little things.
That's laziness more than it is efficiency.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
Think about it if all businesses used c++ apps would never be on time.
Hmmm, I can't recall an app that I was involved with that was ever delivered late, and every one of them looked better than any VB app you might want to point out.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
But otherwiese just accept VB is a tool some people can use well and some just hack it up which is why we are here.
Nope. As real programmers, we have the god-given right to bash VB (and its small-minded advocates) anytime we see fit... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Ed.Poore wrote:
Neither of the two main IT / Computing teachers had even heard of .NET before I said I was going to use if for my project!
At least (I hope) you didn't have to (try to) explain to your teachers how oop works ;P
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Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb? I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc... but why are so many people also anti-vb? Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them :confused: I mean, fine and all if you are more comfortable with the cish syntax, but whats wrong with vb :confused: (note i'm referring to the language and not the people who use it ;P)
Actually some of the most wide-spread viruses have been written in some sort of VB-variant. So, for some people at least, it did prove to be a very effective tool. Regards, Nish
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bakerfishsticks wrote:
VB is just a tool same as C++
Yeah, it's a tool, but it's kinda like trying to use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
From a business stand point VB is great, you can get an app out very quickly without worring about about the little things.
That's laziness more than it is efficiency.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
Think about it if all businesses used c++ apps would never be on time.
Hmmm, I can't recall an app that I was involved with that was ever delivered late, and every one of them looked better than any VB app you might want to point out.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
But otherwiese just accept VB is a tool some people can use well and some just hack it up which is why we are here.
Nope. As real programmers, we have the god-given right to bash VB (and its small-minded advocates) anytime we see fit... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
you must be a very lonely man.
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Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb? I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc... but why are so many people also anti-vb? Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them :confused: I mean, fine and all if you are more comfortable with the cish syntax, but whats wrong with vb :confused: (note i'm referring to the language and not the people who use it ;P)
Because people with small genitalia, who are total geeks, need to feel superior and the only way they know how is to put others down. "People who never make mistakes, never do anything." My Blog
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Why are so many people outspokenly anti-vb? I think its fine to prefer one language over others, perhaps due to what you are most comfortable with, syntax preference, etc... but why are so many people also anti-vb? Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them :confused: I mean, fine and all if you are more comfortable with the cish syntax, but whats wrong with vb :confused: (note i'm referring to the language and not the people who use it ;P)
I personally dislike VB because of two reasons: 1: As someone mentioned earlier, the option explicit and option strict features 2: Syntax Consider the following two examples, VB .Net
Dim a, b a = 10 b = "ABC" Console.WriteLine(a) Console.WriteLine(b)C#int a = 10; string b = "ABC"; Console.WriteLine(a.ToString()); Console.WriteLine(b);While they both do the exact same thing, for me, C# makes the code more understandable because you have to explicitly tell it what type each variable is, and tell it to convert between types, while with vb, it automatically converts between types. For me, that would make it easier to be sloppy and write unmaintanable code. I am not saying VB programmers are bad, i am just saying that from my perspective, C# seems to have alot of benefits that VB doesnt have.Xoy wrote:
Especially if its C# vs VB... Considering there isn't that much different between them
I think it is all a matter of personal preference.
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Ed.Poore wrote:
I haven't dared ask
When you do, would you let us know? ;) ColinMackay.net "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucius "If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell
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bakerfishsticks wrote:
VB is just a tool same as C++
Yeah, it's a tool, but it's kinda like trying to use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
From a business stand point VB is great, you can get an app out very quickly without worring about about the little things.
That's laziness more than it is efficiency.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
Think about it if all businesses used c++ apps would never be on time.
Hmmm, I can't recall an app that I was involved with that was ever delivered late, and every one of them looked better than any VB app you might want to point out.
bakerfishsticks wrote:
But otherwiese just accept VB is a tool some people can use well and some just hack it up which is why we are here.
Nope. As real programmers, we have the god-given right to bash VB (and its small-minded advocates) anytime we see fit... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Hmmm, I can't recall an app that I was involved with that was ever delivered late, and every one of them looked better than any VB app you might want to point out.
that works when your timelines are twice as long.
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:laugh: Now what good does that do for people (like me) who never write anything in office (and thus don't have it installed ;P)
Keeps you busy fixing your relatives' equipment? :)
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