Vista and .NET
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Some Microsoft apps that use the .NET framework and the Common Language Runtime[^]
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Interestingly that link also says BizTalk 2004 has parts written in managed code. So I guess Stone got his facts wrong when he said it was written in managed code. The 1.5 million lines he said must be the total LOC out of which a % might be in managed code. Regards, Nish
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Bah! It's a dead issue. There are a *lot* of applications out there written in fully managed code. We have a large commercial app used in over 34 countries at last count that is written in fully managed code. If I was writing an OS I would use native code as well. You don't pick up a screwdriver to hammer in a nail unless your an idiot. His argument is dogs bollocks.
John Cardinal wrote:
You don't pick up a screwdriver to hammer in a nail
You do if you're Chuck Norris. :) Jeremy Falcon
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David Stone wrote:
BizTalk[^]. Both 2004 and 2006 are completely written in C#. That's 1.5 million LOC in 2004...and probably a lot more in 2006.
Are you sure 2004 was 100% managed code, David? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Of course, Microsoft's most significant integration product forconnected systems is BizTalk Server. At 1.5 million lines of C# code,BizTalk Server 2004 is one of the largest Microsoft .NET productswritten to date (although SQL Server 2005 will exceed this at around 3million lines). BizTalk Server allows the mesh of point-to-point webservice (and other) connections to be replaced with a BizTalk Server "hub".
I've been closely involved with BizTalk Server 2004 during thedevelopment phase, and this time they really got it right. BizTalkServer 2004 is a complete rewrite. If you used prior versions of theproduct, the core concepts are the same, but everything else haschanged. Think of BizTalk Server 2004 as a core engine with lots ofsurfaces - for lots of different intended audiences. There's somethingfor everyone, from business analysts to developers and operationspeople.
BizTalk Server 2004 represents a tremendous investment byMicrosoft. At its peak, the product team consisted of 300 people. Thecode base, at 1.5 million lines of C# code, represents the largest .NETFramework application shipped by Microsoft, and may in fact be thelargest C# code base in the world.
I think the original place I heard it was in a Webcast on BizTalk given by Scott Woodgate, who was, at the time, PM for BizTalk Server. While I'm not sure if it's 100% managed code, I find the words "complete re-write" and "1.5 million lines of C# code" to be pretty convincing. ;P
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<troll> Yeah, but isn't BizTalk just Microsoft's take on [SAP|PeopleSoft]? Those sorts of apps have to be slow and dodgy, else no-one would take them seriously... </troll> :rolleyes:
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Haha. I find it funny how many people have never used BizTalk. It's an incredible server product. Takes a while to get used to...but holy crap does it give you a lot of functionality.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Vista has no services implemented in .NET and Windows Explorer does not host the runtime, which means that the Vista desktop shell is not based on the .NET runtime.
Isn't there something fundamental to the design of the runtimes that prevents multiple versions from being combined in a single process? Seems like a good enough reason to keep them out of widely-used OS components to me... :rolleyes:
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Which is why shell extensions should never be written in .NET unless you absolutely know that your target environment will only have one version of the runtime or that all your shell extensions will only require that particular version.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
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Haha. I find it funny how many people have never used BizTalk. It's an incredible server product. Takes a while to get used to...but holy crap does it give you a lot of functionality.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
David Stone wrote:
I find it funny how many people have never used BizTalk.
Probably due to the price tag.:rolleyes:
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David Stone wrote:
I find it funny how many people have never used BizTalk.
Probably due to the price tag.:rolleyes:
A Plain English signature. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
code-frog wrote:
Probably due to the price tag.
Pfft. That little thing? :rolleyes:
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
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Haha. I find it funny how many people have never used BizTalk. It's an incredible server product. Takes a while to get used to...but holy crap does it give you a lot of functionality.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
David Stone wrote:
I find it funny how many people have never used BizTalk.
:D Makes it easier to comment on, no pesky details to get in the way. (Actually, i had visited the BizTalk product page to try and remember what exactly the product did, but had forgotten what a waste of time such pages are. I think the last time i read a Microsoft product page was shortly after the release of OneNote... and left with the vague suspicion that it was a charting tool of some sort. I eventually figured out what the product did through various bloggers who discussed their use of it, but never bothered with the product site again.)
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David Stone wrote:
I find it funny how many people have never used BizTalk.
:D Makes it easier to comment on, no pesky details to get in the way. (Actually, i had visited the BizTalk product page to try and remember what exactly the product did, but had forgotten what a waste of time such pages are. I think the last time i read a Microsoft product page was shortly after the release of OneNote... and left with the vague suspicion that it was a charting tool of some sort. I eventually figured out what the product did through various bloggers who discussed their use of it, but never bothered with the product site again.)
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Yeah. The other thing is that BizTalk is huge. There are a lot of parts that go into it. So the marketing mumbo-jumbo page isn't going to give you a really clear picture as to what's involved. A better place to look would be this BizTalk Overview[^] page.
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I'm after everything
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Interestingly that link also says BizTalk 2004 has parts written in managed code. So I guess Stone got his facts wrong when he said it was written in managed code. The 1.5 million lines he said must be the total LOC out of which a % might be in managed code. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
So I guess Stone got his facts wrong when he said it was written in managed code.
Everything I quoted said 1.5 Million lines of C# code. C# code can't help but be managed code. And I assume that since they all mention that 2004 was a complete re-write, that it'd all be in C#. Besides, when did this turn into a quest for the 100% managed application? I'd argue that if a majority of the application runs on the CLR, then it can be called a managed application.
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I'm after everything
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Which is why shell extensions should never be written in .NET unless you absolutely know that your target environment will only have one version of the runtime or that all your shell extensions will only require that particular version.
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Say... do you have a link to more information on this?
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Why unmanaged C++ is still the best tool for Shell Extensions[^]. Also, there's a slieu of documentation/articles about CLR Hosting[^] that you can look at.
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I'm after everything
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
So I guess Stone got his facts wrong when he said it was written in managed code.
Everything I quoted said 1.5 Million lines of C# code. C# code can't help but be managed code. And I assume that since they all mention that 2004 was a complete re-write, that it'd all be in C#. Besides, when did this turn into a quest for the 100% managed application? I'd argue that if a majority of the application runs on the CLR, then it can be called a managed application.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
David Stone wrote:
Everything I quoted said 1.5 Million lines of C# code. C# code can't help but be managed code. And I assume that since they all mention that 2004 was a complete re-write, that it'd all be in C#. Besides, when did this turn into a quest for the 100% managed application? I'd argue that if a majority of the application runs on the CLR, then it can be called a managed application.
I posted that before you replied with those links :-) Ignore this post of mine, please. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
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John Cardinal wrote:
You don't pick up a screwdriver to hammer in a nail
You do if you're Chuck Norris. :) Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
You do if you're Chuck Norris.
I thought he pressed them in using his thumb! :rolleyes: Regards, Nish
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Hey Judah That link says Visual Studio 2005 has parts written in managed code. And I am pretty sure it's a very low percentage. I don't remember where or when I asked that, but I did ask someone and the reply was that VS 2005 is a native app, that uses a little managed code. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Odd, because I've talked to a Microsoft dev over at some MSDN blog who said that Visual Studio is lots of C#, and a little native interop.
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
So I guess Stone got his facts wrong when he said it was written in managed code.
Everything I quoted said 1.5 Million lines of C# code. C# code can't help but be managed code. And I assume that since they all mention that 2004 was a complete re-write, that it'd all be in C#. Besides, when did this turn into a quest for the 100% managed application? I'd argue that if a majority of the application runs on the CLR, then it can be called a managed application.
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
David Stone wrote:
I'd argue that if a majority of the application runs on the CLR, then it can be called a managed application.
Bah, any application that ever, directly or indirectly, calls a routine in the C runtime library is, at heart, a C application. If the top 99% are written in something else, well, that just demonstrates the wonderful ability of C apps to host other, lesser, languages... :rolleyes:
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
You do if you're Chuck Norris.
I thought he pressed them in using his thumb! :rolleyes: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!No, only sissies do that. Chuck Norris pounds them in with a round-house kick! :)
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No, only sissies do that. Chuck Norris pounds them in with a round-house kick! :)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Moral Muscle The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
No, only sissies do that. Chuck Norris pounds them in with a round-house kick!
:laugh: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
David Stone wrote:
I'd argue that if a majority of the application runs on the CLR, then it can be called a managed application.
Bah, any application that ever, directly or indirectly, calls a routine in the C runtime library is, at heart, a C application. If the top 99% are written in something else, well, that just demonstrates the wonderful ability of C apps to host other, lesser, languages... :rolleyes:
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Bah, any application that ever, directly or indirectly, calls a routine in assembly is, at heart, an assembly application. If the top 99% are written in something else, well, that just demonstrates the wonderful ability of assembly apps to host other, lesser, languages... :rolleyes: ;P
They dress you up in white satin, And give you your very own pair of wings In August and Everything After
I'm after everything
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Odd, because I've talked to a Microsoft dev over at some MSDN blog who said that Visual Studio is lots of C#, and a little native interop.
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Judah Himango wrote:
Odd, because I've talked to a Microsoft dev over at some MSDN blog who said that Visual Studio is lots of C#, and a little native interop.
One thing's sure. VS 2005's devenv.exe is a mixed-mode app. It may use CLR hosting, but it also has a dependency on mscoree.dll, so it must contain MSIL blocks too. Anyway again, I am not 100% sure of whether it's more native than managed or vice versa, so I won't make any more comments on this :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
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