Avalon is a little overwhelming
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Not like Windows Forms at all - some of the stuff is a little non-intuitive. Hopefully, it'll all get a little more familiar soon.
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface? Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote:
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface?
I am not using XAML. I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not support it) :-( Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to set the text of a Button. There's no Text or Title property! And yeah the vector graphics bit is a little confusing too. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window :-O But it is good stuff! Really good stuff! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Why you say that?. Do you have some samples? Cheers Al
Albert Pascual wrote:
Why you say that?. Do you have some samples?
There are no non-XAML samples available. Looks like everyone's going to use XAML for Avalon UIs. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Michael P Butler wrote:
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface?
I am not using XAML. I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not support it) :-( Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to set the text of a Button. There's no Text or Title property! And yeah the vector graphics bit is a little confusing too. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window :-O But it is good stuff! Really good stuff! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not sup
Ouch. See this is why I moved to C#. (Although I am currently using C++/CLI to update a 4 year old MFC application so that it can use C# assemblies and MyXaml) Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not sup
Ouch. See this is why I moved to C#. (Although I am currently using C++/CLI to update a 4 year old MFC application so that it can use C# assemblies and MyXaml) Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote:
Ouch. See this is why I moved to C#.
Yes, it's painful. I don't see a lot of people doing this - but sometimes, if your app is primarily native, and it's just a few bits of UI there and here that you need to use Avalon for, procedural code is quite alright. Just takes a while to get used to. The entire thing is optimized for XAML based coding, so there's no stress on usability for procedural code. But it's good fun to figure things out :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Not like Windows Forms at all - some of the stuff is a little non-intuitive. Hopefully, it'll all get a little more familiar soon. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!You're a glutton for punishment--there's no designer support yet, right? Much as I don't particularly like the designers, I wouldn't touch Avalon with some good designers in place. Hand coding C++ calls or XAML? HAHAHA. I wonder if there's going to be a need for a wrapper that simplifies a lot the Avalon namespace back into Button.Text="Click Me!"; Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Michael P Butler wrote:
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface?
I am not using XAML. I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not support it) :-( Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to set the text of a Button. There's no Text or Title property! And yeah the vector graphics bit is a little confusing too. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window :-O But it is good stuff! Really good stuff! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
But it is good stuff! Really good stuff!
Say more. What do you like? Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Michael P Butler wrote:
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface?
I am not using XAML. I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not support it) :-( Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to set the text of a Button. There's no Text or Title property! And yeah the vector graphics bit is a little confusing too. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window :-O But it is good stuff! Really good stuff! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window
Interesting. What's the new paradigm for creating dynamic graphics? A button for instance, as a lot of rendering modes (normal, disabled, pressed, hot, focused, etc). How is that dealt with in Avalon? -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
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Michael P Butler wrote:
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface?
I am not using XAML. I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not support it) :-( Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to set the text of a Button. There's no Text or Title property! And yeah the vector graphics bit is a little confusing too. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window :-O But it is good stuff! Really good stuff! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Michael P Butler wrote:
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface?
I am not using XAML. I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not support it) :-( Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to set the text of a Button. There's no Text or Title property! And yeah the vector graphics bit is a little confusing too. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window :-O But it is good stuff! Really good stuff! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
But it is good stuff! Really good stuff!
As I'm unlikely to see "Avalon' deployed onto any of my employeer's desktops for a few years, I've not really done much beyond a bit of fooling around with the beta. The concepts excites me but I've not gone into the nitty-gritty of it all. Still C++/CLI has impressed me. I've got C++/MFC code interacting nicely with .NET assemblies. The syntax is taking a little getting used to, all the :: and -> seem so alien to me now. And I'm sure I'll get used to putting ^ instead of * and using gcnew. The stuff on VoidNish has been very useful for getting me going. Even though the UI I'm adding into this MFC app will be written in C#, just for fun I'm going to convert my MyXaml data-entry from sample into CLI/C++. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window
Interesting. What's the new paradigm for creating dynamic graphics? A button for instance, as a lot of rendering modes (normal, disabled, pressed, hot, focused, etc). How is that dealt with in Avalon? -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Interesting. What's the new paradigm for creating dynamic graphics? A button for instance, as a lot of rendering modes (normal, disabled, pressed, hot, focused, etc). How is that dealt with in Avalon?
I still haven't figured stuff out yet, but Avalon controls don't seem to be Windows windows at all. Spy++ just shows the main parent window - so looks like everything is custom drawn (using the vector graphics engine or whatever it is that it's called). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
You're a glutton for punishment--there's no designer support yet, right? Much as I don't particularly like the designers, I wouldn't touch Avalon with some good designers in place. Hand coding C++ calls or XAML? HAHAHA. I wonder if there's going to be a need for a wrapper that simplifies a lot the Avalon namespace back into Button.Text="Click Me!"; Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
You're a glutton for punishment--there's no designer support yet, right? Much as I don't particularly like the designers, I wouldn't touch Avalon with some good designers in place. Hand coding C++ calls or XAML? HAHAHA.
Handcoding C++ right now. I tried the C# designer (is it called Cider?) and I found that it wasn't all that functional yet.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I wonder if there's going to be a need for a wrapper that simplifies a lot the Avalon namespace back into Button.Text="Click Me!";
I would say yes. Else we are going to have questions like, "Can someone tell me how to set the text of a button control please?" as the MostFAQ :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
But it is good stuff! Really good stuff!
Say more. What do you like? Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
Say more. What do you like?
By "good stuff" I was primarily implying how this gives us a lot of opportunities to learn new stuff - helps keep the mind fresh :-) But I also like the new controls - Just tried a tree control - and the rendering was really good, and on XP. I thought the effect of the vector graphics stuff would only be for Vista, but it's very impressive even on XP. A little slow right now though. And all those transformations (though I still haven't got them working with procedural code) seem impressive too. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
There's no Text or Title property!
Please tell me it's something fun, like a child control... :D
S · H · O · G · N · I · N · E
Shog9 wrote:
Please tell me it's something fun, like a child control...
Just set the
Contentproperty. Though I half expected to have to add some kind of text control as a child of the button :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
But it is good stuff! Really good stuff!
As I'm unlikely to see "Avalon' deployed onto any of my employeer's desktops for a few years, I've not really done much beyond a bit of fooling around with the beta. The concepts excites me but I've not gone into the nitty-gritty of it all. Still C++/CLI has impressed me. I've got C++/MFC code interacting nicely with .NET assemblies. The syntax is taking a little getting used to, all the :: and -> seem so alien to me now. And I'm sure I'll get used to putting ^ instead of * and using gcnew. The stuff on VoidNish has been very useful for getting me going. Even though the UI I'm adding into this MFC app will be written in C#, just for fun I'm going to convert my MyXaml data-entry from sample into CLI/C++. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote:
Even though the UI I'm adding into this MFC app will be written in C#, just for fun I'm going to convert my MyXaml data-entry from sample into CLI/C++.
Pressurize Marc to write a C++/CLI wrapper for his library :rolleyes: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Interesting. What's the new paradigm for creating dynamic graphics? A button for instance, as a lot of rendering modes (normal, disabled, pressed, hot, focused, etc). How is that dealt with in Avalon?
I still haven't figured stuff out yet, but Avalon controls don't seem to be Windows windows at all. Spy++ just shows the main parent window - so looks like everything is custom drawn (using the vector graphics engine or whatever it is that it's called). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
but Avalon controls don't seem to be Windows windows at all. Spy++ just shows the main parent window - so looks like everything is custom drawn (using the vector graphics engine or whatever it is that it's called).
Yep. Apparently they use DirectX to draw controls.
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
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Michael P Butler wrote:
Which bits? Writing XAML or the vector graphic based interface?
I am not using XAML. I am trying to use procedural code since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet (or rather XAML does not support it) :-( Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to set the text of a Button. There's no Text or Title property! And yeah the vector graphics bit is a little confusing too. It took me some time to realize that there is not going to be a paint handler available for a window :-O But it is good stuff! Really good stuff! Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet
I did reach to a point where I thought I wil be able to use XAML independently of C#/VB but I did not continue as I got caught up in other stuff. I think it is possible to do that.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
You're a glutton for punishment--there's no designer support yet, right? Much as I don't particularly like the designers, I wouldn't touch Avalon with some good designers in place. Hand coding C++ calls or XAML? HAHAHA.
Handcoding C++ right now. I tried the C# designer (is it called Cider?) and I found that it wasn't all that functional yet.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I wonder if there's going to be a need for a wrapper that simplifies a lot the Avalon namespace back into Button.Text="Click Me!";
I would say yes. Else we are going to have questions like, "Can someone tell me how to set the text of a button control please?" as the MostFAQ :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!The Visual Studio designer (for Orcas) is called Cider. There's also several other XAML-emitting applications - http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx[^] Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
but Avalon controls don't seem to be Windows windows at all. Spy++ just shows the main parent window - so looks like everything is custom drawn (using the vector graphics engine or whatever it is that it's called).
Yep. Apparently they use DirectX to draw controls.
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Yep. Apparently they use DirectX to draw controls.
Ah, no wonder the rendering is so good. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
since C++/CLI does not support XAML yet
I did reach to a point where I thought I wil be able to use XAML independently of C#/VB but I did not continue as I got caught up in other stuff. I think it is possible to do that.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
I did reach to a point where I thought I wil be able to use XAML independently of C#/VB but I did not continue as I got caught up in other stuff. I think it is possible to do that.
I believe you can load a physical XAML file at runtime. But it'd be cool if you can compile XAML into an obj (or something like that) that can be linked with the main C++ app. Maybe, baml support in the C++ compiler/linker would have been cool. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
The Visual Studio designer (for Orcas) is called Cider. There's also several other XAML-emitting applications - http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx[^] Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
The Visual Studio designer (for Orcas) is called Cider.
Ah okay - Though since it's only for VB and C# now, it may as well be called the "Xaml Designer for VB and C# languages" :) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!