.NET and RAM
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I recently got my first experience with .NET, specifically C#. As a person who has only ever used vb and then win32, I like having the ease of vb UI design with C type syntax. However, I can't get past the fact that C#, while being better then java, still is of the mentality that "RAM is cheap, waste as much as you want!" How did this happen? How is it a good thing that devenv.exe has a 164 megabyte address space? I use C and win32 for everything (even making shell extension COM objects--that's loads of fun), because I still care about efficency. How did people here get yourselves away from the machine level and become comfortable with things like a java or .NET? Or should I just look for a job in device driver programming and live there? 3rd year in college, 20 years old, and as stuck in my ways as your average stereotypical 80 year old...
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I recently got my first experience with .NET, specifically C#. As a person who has only ever used vb and then win32, I like having the ease of vb UI design with C type syntax. However, I can't get past the fact that C#, while being better then java, still is of the mentality that "RAM is cheap, waste as much as you want!" How did this happen? How is it a good thing that devenv.exe has a 164 megabyte address space? I use C and win32 for everything (even making shell extension COM objects--that's loads of fun), because I still care about efficency. How did people here get yourselves away from the machine level and become comfortable with things like a java or .NET? Or should I just look for a job in device driver programming and live there? 3rd year in college, 20 years old, and as stuck in my ways as your average stereotypical 80 year old...
I tend to agree, to the point that I never use the postfix ++ operator. But the real question is not the cost of running the dev environment, but the cost to the end user of running the code. Please don't tell me that you're saying the CLR takes up 164 mb ? Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm thinking of getting married for companionship and so I have someone to cook and clean." - Martin Marvinski, 6/3/2002
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I recently got my first experience with .NET, specifically C#. As a person who has only ever used vb and then win32, I like having the ease of vb UI design with C type syntax. However, I can't get past the fact that C#, while being better then java, still is of the mentality that "RAM is cheap, waste as much as you want!" How did this happen? How is it a good thing that devenv.exe has a 164 megabyte address space? I use C and win32 for everything (even making shell extension COM objects--that's loads of fun), because I still care about efficency. How did people here get yourselves away from the machine level and become comfortable with things like a java or .NET? Or should I just look for a job in device driver programming and live there? 3rd year in college, 20 years old, and as stuck in my ways as your average stereotypical 80 year old...
wParam wrote: How did people here get yourselves away from the machine level and become comfortable with things like a java or .NET?
don't matter no-how. machines keep getting bigger and faster. personally, i'm all for optimizations, small code, fast loops, burnin' cycles while all the young girls "Ooooh!" -c
Smaller Animals Software, Inc. You're the icing - on the cake - on the table - at my wake. Modest Mouse
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I tend to agree, to the point that I never use the postfix ++ operator. But the real question is not the cost of running the dev environment, but the cost to the end user of running the code. Please don't tell me that you're saying the CLR takes up 164 mb ? Christian The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little. "I'm thinking of getting married for companionship and so I have someone to cook and clean." - Martin Marvinski, 6/3/2002
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I recently got my first experience with .NET, specifically C#. As a person who has only ever used vb and then win32, I like having the ease of vb UI design with C type syntax. However, I can't get past the fact that C#, while being better then java, still is of the mentality that "RAM is cheap, waste as much as you want!" How did this happen? How is it a good thing that devenv.exe has a 164 megabyte address space? I use C and win32 for everything (even making shell extension COM objects--that's loads of fun), because I still care about efficency. How did people here get yourselves away from the machine level and become comfortable with things like a java or .NET? Or should I just look for a job in device driver programming and live there? 3rd year in college, 20 years old, and as stuck in my ways as your average stereotypical 80 year old...
Part of it is laziness certainly. Why should I bother to read a file in small pieces to get when I want (and keep a small footprint) when I know I have enough memory to read the entire thing into memory at once (within reason)? Why bother tweaking my loops to get it to run one time less in a function that's rarely run? Why bother to make sure I use a vs. verses an If-Else when my code is running in Ring 3? Why bother to make sure I use a short vs. an int in my for my "for" loop iterator when I know it's only going to run maybe 10 times at most? These are all things that I WOULD do (and a lot more) if I really had the time I needed on any given project. The truth is, however, that it rarely makes a noticeable difference unless you are running a certain process frequently or certainly down in Ring 0 (driver world). Also, I think a large portion of us on here are developers either: 1) At the college level or lower. 2) In our mid to late twenties or very early thirties. I'm 29 and graduated college in 1997... only 5 years ago. I didn't enter my major until 1993 or 1994 and the only programming I did before that was some old BASIC stuff when I was a kid. By that time computers were already well on their way. People in my age bracket (and actually a decent amount OLDER) never had to do our programs on Punch Cards to be turned in. We never had probably less than 8 MB to worry about. Heck, in college I was programming on a VAX and UNIX system with TONS of resources. Since then all my development has been for targeting machines that are very powerful compared to what some of my really older colleages had to deal with. So, in summary: 1) We're lazy. 2) There's usually not enough time/money to truly optimize. 3) Today's programmer doesn't have the same problems to overcome and NEVER had it so our methodology's have changed significantly. Matt
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I recently got my first experience with .NET, specifically C#. As a person who has only ever used vb and then win32, I like having the ease of vb UI design with C type syntax. However, I can't get past the fact that C#, while being better then java, still is of the mentality that "RAM is cheap, waste as much as you want!" How did this happen? How is it a good thing that devenv.exe has a 164 megabyte address space? I use C and win32 for everything (even making shell extension COM objects--that's loads of fun), because I still care about efficency. How did people here get yourselves away from the machine level and become comfortable with things like a java or .NET? Or should I just look for a job in device driver programming and live there? 3rd year in college, 20 years old, and as stuck in my ways as your average stereotypical 80 year old...
Where did you get the 164 from? My devenv.exe shows ~35 MB in TaskManager at startup. :confused: Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't C# end up having a net effect of using LESS memory? I mean, if you're running 10 .NET applications, they're all sharing the common dlls and normally the distributed .exes and .dlls for .NET are smaller than non-.NET versions... John
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actually, the correct way is to use
template <typename _t, _t _o = static_cast<_t>(1)>
_t successor(_t const & _x)
{
return _x + _o;
}
i = successor(i);This isn't STL compliant, however, since you can't const-iterate over the values of type _t.
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Where did you get the 164 from? My devenv.exe shows ~35 MB in TaskManager at startup. :confused: Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't C# end up having a net effect of using LESS memory? I mean, if you're running 10 .NET applications, they're all sharing the common dlls and normally the distributed .exes and .dlls for .NET are smaller than non-.NET versions... John
The colums that gives me that is the "VM Size" column. "Mem usage" (whatever the heck that refers to) shows 66 megs at the moment, but goes as low as 4 if I minimize the ide. Anyone know what "Mem usage" is measuring? Also, this devenv.exe has been running for ... a long time, like a week. brian