MS to support C99 ?
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Anyone has idea why Microsoft is not interested in supporting C99 (ISO/IEC 9899:1999) whereas some others do (as Borland C++ Builder 2006[^], GCC, Comeau[^], etc.)?
Maxwell Chen
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Anyone has idea why Microsoft is not interested in supporting C99 (ISO/IEC 9899:1999) whereas some others do (as Borland C++ Builder 2006[^], GCC, Comeau[^], etc.)?
Maxwell Chen
Because they have a veritable death grip on the windows programming market and there is no real competition for them. Borland C++ is all but dead, and I'd never heard of Comeau before this. GCC is a joke, and Intel's C++ complier is (or was) way too expensive for what you get, beyond the fact that I don't know anyone personally that's ever used it. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Anyone has idea why Microsoft is not interested in supporting C99 (ISO/IEC 9899:1999) whereas some others do (as Borland C++ Builder 2006[^], GCC, Comeau[^], etc.)?
Maxwell Chen
Because C99 is a solution looking for a problem. Virtually all new types in C99 are already in C++ as standard libraries. Features like variable-length arrays can be easily substituted with a C++
vector. Variable-argument macros can largely be substituted with inline functions (which C++ already had and are a new feature in C99). Microsoft have decided to concentrate their resources on improving their C++ compiler and on C++/CLI. Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder -
Because they have a veritable death grip on the windows programming market and there is no real competition for them. Borland C++ is all but dead, and I'd never heard of Comeau before this. GCC is a joke, and Intel's C++ complier is (or was) way too expensive for what you get, beyond the fact that I don't know anyone personally that's ever used it. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Because they have a veritable death grip on the windows programming market and there is no real competition for them. Borland C++ is all but dead, and I'd never heard of Comeau before this. GCC is a joke, and Intel's C++ complier is (or was) way too expensive for what you get, beyond the fact that I don't know anyone personally that's ever used it. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Anyone has idea why Microsoft is not interested in supporting C99 (ISO/IEC 9899:1999) whereas some others do (as Borland C++ Builder 2006[^], GCC, Comeau[^], etc.)?
Maxwell Chen
I would concur with some of the other comments, but I'd add another - are those three users worth Microsoft's time in chasing ? I can see how that would double Borland's user base, but Microsoft is another kettle of fish.... Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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You sir, are clueless :|
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one. They have no reason to - they are targetting one specific platform, and it makes no sense to add C99 support, even if their "competitors" do have it. Borland C++ is dying, so it's not a threat. GCC won't take off under Windows unless there is a decent IDE that uses it. The Intel compiler is brilliant, but it costs more than VC++ and comes with nothing but the compiler and libraries. Comeau doesn't come with any libraries, so you have to find your own; and it is only a frontend - you need another C compiler to actually generate compiled code - not very useful most of the time. Why would MS waste time adding C99 support? They have no reason to.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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I would concur with some of the other comments, but I'd add another - are those three users worth Microsoft's time in chasing ? I can see how that would double Borland's user base, but Microsoft is another kettle of fish.... Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
three users
Three? :omg: Who's the third?
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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Christian Graus wrote:
three users
Three? :omg: Who's the third?
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
Some guy on the MSDN forums the other day who was complaining at length about lack of C99 support in VC++ Express. Honestly, the number of people who have the gall to complain about lack of features in a free compiler blows my mind. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one. They have no reason to - they are targetting one specific platform, and it makes no sense to add C99 support, even if their "competitors" do have it. Borland C++ is dying, so it's not a threat. GCC won't take off under Windows unless there is a decent IDE that uses it. The Intel compiler is brilliant, but it costs more than VC++ and comes with nothing but the compiler and libraries. Comeau doesn't come with any libraries, so you have to find your own; and it is only a frontend - you need another C compiler to actually generate compiled code - not very useful most of the time. Why would MS waste time adding C99 support? They have no reason to.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
Ryan Binns wrote:
Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one
ok.. i agree :) But he still sucks anyway :-D
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
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Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one. They have no reason to - they are targetting one specific platform, and it makes no sense to add C99 support, even if their "competitors" do have it. Borland C++ is dying, so it's not a threat. GCC won't take off under Windows unless there is a decent IDE that uses it. The Intel compiler is brilliant, but it costs more than VC++ and comes with nothing but the compiler and libraries. Comeau doesn't come with any libraries, so you have to find your own; and it is only a frontend - you need another C compiler to actually generate compiled code - not very useful most of the time. Why would MS waste time adding C99 support? They have no reason to.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
Yes, his reply this time makes sense.
Maxwell Chen
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Because they have a veritable death grip on the windows programming market and there is no real competition for them. Borland C++ is all but dead, and I'd never heard of Comeau before this. GCC is a joke, and Intel's C++ complier is (or was) way too expensive for what you get, beyond the fact that I don't know anyone personally that's ever used it. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Verions of GCC are used widely in embedded systems but for Windows it can't compete with Microsoft. The tigress is here :-D
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Because they have a veritable death grip on the windows programming market and there is no real competition for them. Borland C++ is all but dead, and I'd never heard of Comeau before this. GCC is a joke, and Intel's C++ complier is (or was) way too expensive for what you get, beyond the fact that I don't know anyone personally that's ever used it. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
I think you have a point. Another aspect is that they don't want anyone to use C/C++ anymore: they expect us to drop everything and use .NET. Steve
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Because C99 is a solution looking for a problem. Virtually all new types in C99 are already in C++ as standard libraries. Features like variable-length arrays can be easily substituted with a C++
vector. Variable-argument macros can largely be substituted with inline functions (which C++ already had and are a new feature in C99). Microsoft have decided to concentrate their resources on improving their C++ compiler and on C++/CLI. Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris MaunderMike Dimmick wrote:
Because C99 is a solution looking for a problem. Virtually all new types in C99 are already in C++ as standard libraries.
It helps to take at least a faint look at the C99 Standard before answering. :suss:
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Ryan Binns wrote:
Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one
ok.. i agree :) But he still sucks anyway :-D
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
And why do you think I suck? Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our southern border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 25000 are humorless twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be called an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear? Yeah, I guess I suck then. Oh wait - I'm clueless, too. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I thought that I was looking the viewpoints from the language aspect though ... :doh::~
Maxwell Chen
The language aspect is that MS is trying to kill off C++. Why would they want to improve their C++ product? ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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And why do you think I suck? Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our southern border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 25000 are humorless twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be called an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear? Yeah, I guess I suck then. Oh wait - I'm clueless, too. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our souther border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 100000 are humorlous twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be acalled an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear?
:omg: i didn't know all this about you (thanks for the information BTW). i just don't like outlaws very much, it generally means that they don't obey the law(which is bad thing).
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our souther border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 100000 are humorlous twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be acalled an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear?
:omg: i didn't know all this about you (thanks for the information BTW). i just don't like outlaws very much, it generally means that they don't obey the law(which is bad thing).
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
i know i should not be replying, i am just having a moment of weakness. if i understand correctly the essence of your "complaint" about John is his name??? has it occurred to you to look deeper than this before forming such opinions? on the plus side if you take me to be a large cat (which would be a logical extrapolation since i can reach the keyboard) then i do not exist, so i am not actually replying, which is probably best. zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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i know i should not be replying, i am just having a moment of weakness. if i understand correctly the essence of your "complaint" about John is his name??? has it occurred to you to look deeper than this before forming such opinions? on the plus side if you take me to be a large cat (which would be a logical extrapolation since i can reach the keyboard) then i do not exist, so i am not actually replying, which is probably best. zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
feline_dracoform wrote:
if i understand correctly the essence of your "complaint" about John is his name?
Nope, there is more but this is the Lounge not soap box.
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our souther border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 100000 are humorlous twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be acalled an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear?
:omg: i didn't know all this about you (thanks for the information BTW). i just don't like outlaws very much, it generally means that they don't obey the law(which is bad thing).
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
I prefer to define outlaw not as being a habitual criminal, but rather as the independent personality who defies unjust or unreasonable conventions. By all accounts, I *am* an outlaw programmer because instead of earning a degree, I took enough college courses to realize that all languages are essentially the same, and taught myself Pascal and C/C++. I now have so much experience (over 25 years) that degree "requirments" don't apply to me when looking for a job. It was a nickname given to me in the early 80's because a) for the most part, I taught myself to code, and b) I enjoyed writing code that "experts" said couldn't or didn't need to be written. Today, I'm an outlaw programmer because I don't agree that .NET is the end-all be-all of programming for windows, efficient and well formatted code is the key to low maintenance costs that inevitably frees up programmers to concentrate on writing new code, and that there's not enough time allotted to design/functional specs or testing. I'm an outlaw because I give double-barrel opinions and only pause long enough to see who's still standing. I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit. I've been hammering on Nish since he joined, and I have to admit, I respect his ability to hang in there. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
