MS to support C99 ?
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Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one. They have no reason to - they are targetting one specific platform, and it makes no sense to add C99 support, even if their "competitors" do have it. Borland C++ is dying, so it's not a threat. GCC won't take off under Windows unless there is a decent IDE that uses it. The Intel compiler is brilliant, but it costs more than VC++ and comes with nothing but the compiler and libraries. Comeau doesn't come with any libraries, so you have to find your own; and it is only a frontend - you need another C compiler to actually generate compiled code - not very useful most of the time. Why would MS waste time adding C99 support? They have no reason to.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
Ryan Binns wrote:
Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one
ok.. i agree :) But he still sucks anyway :-D
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
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Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one. They have no reason to - they are targetting one specific platform, and it makes no sense to add C99 support, even if their "competitors" do have it. Borland C++ is dying, so it's not a threat. GCC won't take off under Windows unless there is a decent IDE that uses it. The Intel compiler is brilliant, but it costs more than VC++ and comes with nothing but the compiler and libraries. Comeau doesn't come with any libraries, so you have to find your own; and it is only a frontend - you need another C compiler to actually generate compiled code - not very useful most of the time. Why would MS waste time adding C99 support? They have no reason to.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
Yes, his reply this time makes sense.
Maxwell Chen
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Because they have a veritable death grip on the windows programming market and there is no real competition for them. Borland C++ is all but dead, and I'd never heard of Comeau before this. GCC is a joke, and Intel's C++ complier is (or was) way too expensive for what you get, beyond the fact that I don't know anyone personally that's ever used it. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Verions of GCC are used widely in embedded systems but for Windows it can't compete with Microsoft. The tigress is here :-D
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Because they have a veritable death grip on the windows programming market and there is no real competition for them. Borland C++ is all but dead, and I'd never heard of Comeau before this. GCC is a joke, and Intel's C++ complier is (or was) way too expensive for what you get, beyond the fact that I don't know anyone personally that's ever used it. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
I think you have a point. Another aspect is that they don't want anyone to use C/C++ anymore: they expect us to drop everything and use .NET. Steve
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Because C99 is a solution looking for a problem. Virtually all new types in C99 are already in C++ as standard libraries. Features like variable-length arrays can be easily substituted with a C++
vector. Variable-argument macros can largely be substituted with inline functions (which C++ already had and are a new feature in C99). Microsoft have decided to concentrate their resources on improving their C++ compiler and on C++/CLI. Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris MaunderMike Dimmick wrote:
Because C99 is a solution looking for a problem. Virtually all new types in C99 are already in C++ as standard libraries.
It helps to take at least a faint look at the C99 Standard before answering. :suss:
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Ryan Binns wrote:
Now, I don't very often agree with John's rants, but I must agree with this one
ok.. i agree :) But he still sucks anyway :-D
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
And why do you think I suck? Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our southern border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 25000 are humorless twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be called an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear? Yeah, I guess I suck then. Oh wait - I'm clueless, too. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I thought that I was looking the viewpoints from the language aspect though ... :doh::~
Maxwell Chen
The language aspect is that MS is trying to kill off C++. Why would they want to improve their C++ product? ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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And why do you think I suck? Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our southern border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 25000 are humorless twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be called an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear? Yeah, I guess I suck then. Oh wait - I'm clueless, too. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our souther border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 100000 are humorlous twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be acalled an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear?
:omg: i didn't know all this about you (thanks for the information BTW). i just don't like outlaws very much, it generally means that they don't obey the law(which is bad thing).
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our souther border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 100000 are humorlous twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be acalled an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear?
:omg: i didn't know all this about you (thanks for the information BTW). i just don't like outlaws very much, it generally means that they don't obey the law(which is bad thing).
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
i know i should not be replying, i am just having a moment of weakness. if i understand correctly the essence of your "complaint" about John is his name??? has it occurred to you to look deeper than this before forming such opinions? on the plus side if you take me to be a large cat (which would be a logical extrapolation since i can reach the keyboard) then i do not exist, so i am not actually replying, which is probably best. zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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i know i should not be replying, i am just having a moment of weakness. if i understand correctly the essence of your "complaint" about John is his name??? has it occurred to you to look deeper than this before forming such opinions? on the plus side if you take me to be a large cat (which would be a logical extrapolation since i can reach the keyboard) then i do not exist, so i am not actually replying, which is probably best. zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
feline_dracoform wrote:
if i understand correctly the essence of your "complaint" about John is his name?
Nope, there is more but this is the Lounge not soap box.
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our souther border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 100000 are humorlous twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be acalled an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear?
:omg: i didn't know all this about you (thanks for the information BTW). i just don't like outlaws very much, it generally means that they don't obey the law(which is bad thing).
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
I prefer to define outlaw not as being a habitual criminal, but rather as the independent personality who defies unjust or unreasonable conventions. By all accounts, I *am* an outlaw programmer because instead of earning a degree, I took enough college courses to realize that all languages are essentially the same, and taught myself Pascal and C/C++. I now have so much experience (over 25 years) that degree "requirments" don't apply to me when looking for a job. It was a nickname given to me in the early 80's because a) for the most part, I taught myself to code, and b) I enjoyed writing code that "experts" said couldn't or didn't need to be written. Today, I'm an outlaw programmer because I don't agree that .NET is the end-all be-all of programming for windows, efficient and well formatted code is the key to low maintenance costs that inevitably frees up programmers to concentrate on writing new code, and that there's not enough time allotted to design/functional specs or testing. I'm an outlaw because I give double-barrel opinions and only pause long enough to see who's still standing. I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit. I've been hammering on Nish since he joined, and I have to admit, I respect his ability to hang in there. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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The language aspect is that MS is trying to kill off C++. Why would they want to improve their C++ product? ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The language aspect is that MS is trying to kill off C++.
:-D
Maxwell Chen
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I would concur with some of the other comments, but I'd add another - are those three users worth Microsoft's time in chasing ? I can see how that would double Borland's user base, but Microsoft is another kettle of fish.... Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Even the 300,000 programmers coding for windows aren't apparently worth MS's time. If we were, VS2005 would have been a much better product out of the gate... ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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And why do you think I suck? Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our southern border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 25000 are humorless twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be called an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear? Yeah, I guess I suck then. Oh wait - I'm clueless, too. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor?
Just got this a few minutes ago. Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6am. While his coffeepot ( MADE IN CHINA ) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor ( MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt ( MADE IN SRI LANKA ), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE ) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA ). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA ) he sat down with his calculator ( MADE IN MEXICO ) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN ) to the radio ( MADE IN INDIA ) he got in his car ( MADE IN GERMANY ) filled it with GAS (from Saudi Arabia) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN J OB . At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia ), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals ( MADE IN BRAZIL ) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE ) and turned on his TV ( MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA .....
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I prefer to define outlaw not as being a habitual criminal, but rather as the independent personality who defies unjust or unreasonable conventions. By all accounts, I *am* an outlaw programmer because instead of earning a degree, I took enough college courses to realize that all languages are essentially the same, and taught myself Pascal and C/C++. I now have so much experience (over 25 years) that degree "requirments" don't apply to me when looking for a job. It was a nickname given to me in the early 80's because a) for the most part, I taught myself to code, and b) I enjoyed writing code that "experts" said couldn't or didn't need to be written. Today, I'm an outlaw programmer because I don't agree that .NET is the end-all be-all of programming for windows, efficient and well formatted code is the key to low maintenance costs that inevitably frees up programmers to concentrate on writing new code, and that there's not enough time allotted to design/functional specs or testing. I'm an outlaw because I give double-barrel opinions and only pause long enough to see who's still standing. I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit. I've been hammering on Nish since he joined, and I have to admit, I respect his ability to hang in there. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Respectfully, though, we have had to widen the doorways since John arrived... Asking someone to define CP is like asking someone to define art. It is a known, a tangable thing, a state of being. To define it is to limit and miss its true nature.
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I would concur with some of the other comments, but I'd add another - are those three users worth Microsoft's time in chasing ? I can see how that would double Borland's user base, but Microsoft is another kettle of fish.... Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Asking someone to define CP is like asking someone to define art. It is a known, a tangable thing, a state of being. To define it is to limit and miss its true nature.
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I prefer to define outlaw not as being a habitual criminal, but rather as the independent personality who defies unjust or unreasonable conventions. By all accounts, I *am* an outlaw programmer because instead of earning a degree, I took enough college courses to realize that all languages are essentially the same, and taught myself Pascal and C/C++. I now have so much experience (over 25 years) that degree "requirments" don't apply to me when looking for a job. It was a nickname given to me in the early 80's because a) for the most part, I taught myself to code, and b) I enjoyed writing code that "experts" said couldn't or didn't need to be written. Today, I'm an outlaw programmer because I don't agree that .NET is the end-all be-all of programming for windows, efficient and well formatted code is the key to low maintenance costs that inevitably frees up programmers to concentrate on writing new code, and that there's not enough time allotted to design/functional specs or testing. I'm an outlaw because I give double-barrel opinions and only pause long enough to see who's still standing. I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit. I've been hammering on Nish since he joined, and I have to admit, I respect his ability to hang in there. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Even the 300,000 programmers coding for windows aren't apparently worth MS's time. If we were, VS2005 would have been a much better product out of the gate... ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Even the 300,000 programmers coding for windows aren't apparently worth MS's time.
But how many of them use straight-C? Most Win32 native developers use C++. C99 is a C-standard. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Do you feel good about yourself now or do you need to continue patting yourself on the back? Yeah whatever...
Two years a member, with this being your first post. You chose... poorly. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Even the 300,000 programmers coding for windows aren't apparently worth MS's time.
But how many of them use straight-C? Most Win32 native developers use C++. C99 is a C-standard. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!My point was that no matter what language you code in, MS ignores you whether you're one of three or one of 300,000. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
