MS to support C99 ?
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Even the 300,000 programmers coding for windows aren't apparently worth MS's time. If we were, VS2005 would have been a much better product out of the gate... ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Even the 300,000 programmers coding for windows aren't apparently worth MS's time.
But how many of them use straight-C? Most Win32 native developers use C++. C99 is a C-standard. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Do you feel good about yourself now or do you need to continue patting yourself on the back? Yeah whatever...
Two years a member, with this being your first post. You chose... poorly. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Even the 300,000 programmers coding for windows aren't apparently worth MS's time.
But how many of them use straight-C? Most Win32 native developers use C++. C99 is a C-standard. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!My point was that no matter what language you code in, MS ignores you whether you're one of three or one of 300,000. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Two years a member, with this being your first post. You chose... poorly. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Two years a member, with this being your first post. You chose... poorly.
:laugh:
Maxwell Chen
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I prefer to define outlaw not as being a habitual criminal, but rather as the independent personality who defies unjust or unreasonable conventions. By all accounts, I *am* an outlaw programmer because instead of earning a degree, I took enough college courses to realize that all languages are essentially the same, and taught myself Pascal and C/C++. I now have so much experience (over 25 years) that degree "requirments" don't apply to me when looking for a job. It was a nickname given to me in the early 80's because a) for the most part, I taught myself to code, and b) I enjoyed writing code that "experts" said couldn't or didn't need to be written. Today, I'm an outlaw programmer because I don't agree that .NET is the end-all be-all of programming for windows, efficient and well formatted code is the key to low maintenance costs that inevitably frees up programmers to concentrate on writing new code, and that there's not enough time allotted to design/functional specs or testing. I'm an outlaw because I give double-barrel opinions and only pause long enough to see who's still standing. I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit. I've been hammering on Nish since he joined, and I have to admit, I respect his ability to hang in there. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
instead of earning a degree, I took enough college courses to realize that all languages are essentially the same, and taught myself Pascal and C/C++.
Oooh I think I must be an uber-outlaw, since not only didn't I get a degree, I didn't go to college either, I'm self taught on the job. Sadly no-one ever gave me a nick name, well I did get called "Tex" for a while after some paricularly esoteric Delphi I once wrote, but anyway....
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
because I don't agree that .NET is the end-all be-all of programming
Yup
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
efficient and well formatted code is the key to low maintenance costs
Yup
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
there's not enough time allotted to design/functional specs or testing
Yup, although sometimes there's too much, and we get mired [by upper management] in endless design reviews
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit
I think maybe you meant "wild gesticulating foaming at the mouth sputem laden desert-like wit" :~
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I respect his ability to hang in there
You think he super-glued his cuticles to the CP window ledge :doh: Phil Harding.
myBlog [^] | mySite [^] -- modified at 14:50 Monday 8th May, 2006 -
Verions of GCC are used widely in embedded systems but for Windows it can't compete with Microsoft. The tigress is here :-D
Trollslayer wrote:
but for Windows it can't compete with Microsoft
As a compiler it does, I'd say the compiler produces faster binaries than the MS compiler, it certainly did on one of my recent projects. The only thing GCC lacks on Win32 is a decent GUI, there's just nothing to match the VS GUI. Phil Harding.
myBlog [^] | mySite [^] -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
instead of earning a degree, I took enough college courses to realize that all languages are essentially the same, and taught myself Pascal and C/C++.
Oooh I think I must be an uber-outlaw, since not only didn't I get a degree, I didn't go to college either, I'm self taught on the job. Sadly no-one ever gave me a nick name, well I did get called "Tex" for a while after some paricularly esoteric Delphi I once wrote, but anyway....
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
because I don't agree that .NET is the end-all be-all of programming
Yup
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
efficient and well formatted code is the key to low maintenance costs
Yup
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
there's not enough time allotted to design/functional specs or testing
Yup, although sometimes there's too much, and we get mired [by upper management] in endless design reviews
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit
I think maybe you meant "wild gesticulating foaming at the mouth sputem laden desert-like wit" :~
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I respect his ability to hang in there
You think he super-glued his cuticles to the CP window ledge :doh: Phil Harding.
myBlog [^] | mySite [^] -- modified at 14:50 Monday 8th May, 2006Phil Harding wrote:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit I think maybe you meant "wild gesticulating foaming at the mouth sputem laden desert-like wit"
I think you were here early enough to remember the guy that started insulting himself to save me the trouble. I believe it was an article on the Koran. It's long since been deleted, but that was some pretty funny stuff. I think he said he was fat and balding and still lived with his mother or something... LOL ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I prefer to define outlaw not as being a habitual criminal, but rather as the independent personality who defies unjust or unreasonable conventions. By all accounts, I *am* an outlaw programmer because instead of earning a degree, I took enough college courses to realize that all languages are essentially the same, and taught myself Pascal and C/C++. I now have so much experience (over 25 years) that degree "requirments" don't apply to me when looking for a job. It was a nickname given to me in the early 80's because a) for the most part, I taught myself to code, and b) I enjoyed writing code that "experts" said couldn't or didn't need to be written. Today, I'm an outlaw programmer because I don't agree that .NET is the end-all be-all of programming for windows, efficient and well formatted code is the key to low maintenance costs that inevitably frees up programmers to concentrate on writing new code, and that there's not enough time allotted to design/functional specs or testing. I'm an outlaw because I give double-barrel opinions and only pause long enough to see who's still standing. I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit. I've been hammering on Nish since he joined, and I have to admit, I respect his ability to hang in there. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
It was a nickname given to me in the early 80's because a) for the most part, I taught myself to code, and b) I enjoyed writing code that "experts" said couldn't or didn't need to be written.
Funny enough, I was declined from an MS position because I "seemed too much of a code cowboy". Upon hearing that, I said that was an apt description... and reminded them that the west was won by us cowboys.
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Anyone has idea why Microsoft is not interested in supporting C99 (ISO/IEC 9899:1999) whereas some others do (as Borland C++ Builder 2006[^], GCC, Comeau[^], etc.)?
Maxwell Chen
I've looked at C99 and find it utterly pointless. As someone said previously, it really is a solution looking for a problem. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Mike Dimmick wrote:
Because C99 is a solution looking for a problem. Virtually all new types in C99 are already in C++ as standard libraries.
It helps to take at least a faint look at the C99 Standard before answering. :suss:
But he's right, virtuallly all the new features of C99 are in the C++ standard and the few that aren't are mostly curiosities (and those that could be useful, could just as easily be put into the C++ standard.) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Phil Harding wrote:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I stab at the survivors with my desert-like wit I think maybe you meant "wild gesticulating foaming at the mouth sputem laden desert-like wit"
I think you were here early enough to remember the guy that started insulting himself to save me the trouble. I believe it was an article on the Koran. It's long since been deleted, but that was some pretty funny stuff. I think he said he was fat and balding and still lived with his mother or something... LOL ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I think you were here early enough to remember the guy that started insulting himself to save me the trouble
Sadly I didn't have the pleasure, but perhaps we can all take a tip here and add self-insulting JSOP tags to our sigs, just to save wear and tear on your pinkies :^) JSOP: _Yes, I am a vertically challenged, goggle eyed, bombastic short arse, not short of vanity and prone to sulky tantrums_Phil Harding.
myBlog [^] | mySite [^] -
feline_dracoform wrote:
if i understand correctly the essence of your "complaint" about John is his name?
Nope, there is more but this is the Lounge not soap box.
Large cats have been scientifically proven to dream. Among the recurring themes are balls of yarn, mice, and half-blind overweight shackled oryx.
Wow...I wouldn't be surprised by how much hatred just exploded all over the forums here if we weren't talking about Microsoft. Pity, John got most of it all over him. Anyways...lets _relax_ a little like the name of this board implies :-D
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
It was a nickname given to me in the early 80's because a) for the most part, I taught myself to code, and b) I enjoyed writing code that "experts" said couldn't or didn't need to be written.
Funny enough, I was declined from an MS position because I "seemed too much of a code cowboy". Upon hearing that, I said that was an apt description... and reminded them that the west was won by us cowboys.
lol.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor?
Just got this a few minutes ago. Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6am. While his coffeepot ( MADE IN CHINA ) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor ( MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt ( MADE IN SRI LANKA ), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE ) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA ). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA ) he sat down with his calculator ( MADE IN MEXICO ) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN ) to the radio ( MADE IN INDIA ) he got in his car ( MADE IN GERMANY ) filled it with GAS (from Saudi Arabia) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN J OB . At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia ), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals ( MADE IN BRAZIL ) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE ) and turned on his TV ( MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA .....
I think the only thing he got wrong in that quote was the 'half-assed'. Sadly to say, America is not necessarily the least 'half-assed' producer of goods. There's plenty of other countries that can develop things we can't for cheaper prices. It's nothing more than economics, we've just got to shift with them...or move. *Waits for the flame war to begin*
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Two years a member, with this being your first post. You chose... poorly. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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And why do you think I suck? Because I want our Constitution to once again mean what it says? Because I think we need less government? Because I despise the fact that American jobs are lost to cheap, half-assed overseas labor? Because I want something done about the illegal immigration problem on our southern border? Because I think instead of complaining about high gas prices, we should find alternative fuels? Because it's my opinion that the significant majority of people on CP who's membership ID is higher than 25000 are humorless twits? Because I use words that are too large for you to comprehend? Because, despite the fact that I'm the most acerbic individual on this site, I still command what could be called an unreasonable amount of respect, awe, and dare I say - fear? Yeah, I guess I suck then. Oh wait - I'm clueless, too. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
You go John! DB_Cooper1950
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Anyone has idea why Microsoft is not interested in supporting C99 (ISO/IEC 9899:1999) whereas some others do (as Borland C++ Builder 2006[^], GCC, Comeau[^], etc.)?
Maxwell Chen
Having developed projects at Microsoft, I think the main reason is that the C compiler in particular has so much hyperflammable zombie code (it lives, but nobody presently within the organization has the slightest idea how or why, and any attempt to poke large portions of the code base invariably result in Death Star-class pyrotechnics that completely consume all available schedules and budgets). Anybody wanting to understand why Windows and Office bear uncanny metaphoric resemblances to cyanide-spiked Swiss cheese need understand only two things: 1. They're written in C++ and C, and 2. They were built using Microsoft's tools and compilers. I know a guy who got fired for proving that his component would build faster and smaller code with fewer defects using the Borland compiler than the then-current Visual C++ toolchain. It's awfully hard to build defect-free code when your compiler and debugger have bugs :rolleyes:
-- Jeff Dickey jdickey@seven-sigma.com Seven Sigma Software and Services Phone/SMS: +6012 373 8513 FOAF: http://www.seven-sigma.com/foaf.rdf Yahoo! IM: jeff_dickey ICQ: 8053918 Tencent QQ: 30302349 -- If you can't reach me by any of these, one of us may be permanently offline -- I use and recommend GNU Privacy Guard to authenticate and secure email messages! Public key: Download from public servers - Key ID 27F20D92 Fingerprint: B6FB B5DB 9FB5 2ADE B4B3 AF6C 3467 5D64 27F2
