Undocumented? You mean ILLEGAL
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Rant: Apparently the latest buzz word needed to pass the political correctness exam in the US is “undocumented.” We suddenly have undocumented immigrants, undocumented workers, undocumented students, ad et al puke. As a developer, I’ve seen this little trick tried on end users: “That isn’t actually a bug, it is an undocumented feature.” Who is stupid enough to buy this crap? If a person takes someone else’s car without asking are they then the “undocumented owner?” If someone kidnaps a child, and raises it as their own, are they then the “undocumented parent?” Let's just call it what it is: illegal! Disclaimer: I have nothing against Mexicans, or even against Mexicans coming to the US. I have friends who are Mexican. My brother is married to a Mexican. I do, however, despise political correctness – and the wimpiness it equates to. Just say what you have to say, and quit trying to add water to our vocabulary. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
EricDV wrote:
political correctness
I don't think there is a government anywhere on this planet that will not conceil, hide or say differently, the things they actually mean. X| I never understood why. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't matter if you don't. :beer:
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espeir wrote:
The parents probably get to stay.
As legal or illegal ?
espeir wrote:
if a Cuban national makes it onto American soil, they are immediately granted amnesty and residency and are therefore not illegal aliens
The moment they arrive do you have a rule which says something like "upon your arrival you must immediately request asylum or leave this country", or is it automatic asylum. But I recall that if a Cuban, on a "boat", is in international waters between Cuba and Florida, they can be returned to Cuba.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
As legal or illegal ?
Technically they would be illegal unless granted residency.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
The moment they arrive do you have a rule which says something like "upon your arrival you must immediately request asylum or leave this country", or is it automatic asylum. But I recall that if a Cuban, on a "boat", is in international waters between Cuba and Florida, they can be returned to Cuba.
I'm not 100% sure, but my understanding is that once they make it to shore they're good to go. The Coast Guard tries mighty hard to make sure they don't make it.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
If those illegal alien parents were arrested and deported to wherever they came from, would the child(ren) of such illegals be also deported or would they be made "ward of court" (or whatever the American name is) forbidding that child to be deported as that child was born in the USA.
I'm not sure what happens to the children. I do know people who have had kids in the US, but were deported themselves - so just having kids does not make you a US citizen. Of course, those I knew took their children with them when they were sent back. I don't know if they could have chosen to leave the kids or not.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Does your legal system have opt-out clauses similar to those in Europe where deporting illegal aliens to their own country if their own country has a regime that may be detrimental to life and limb.
Yes. Even illegal immigrants who commit a felony, and are incarcerated, cannot be deported after their release to countries such as Veitnam, China, Cuba, or any country where they could be killed or tortured when they get there. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
EricDV wrote:
Of course, those I knew took their children with them when they were sent back
So America would permit deporting a child of an illegal alien even if that child was born in the USA.
EricDV wrote:
cannot be deported after their release to countries such as Veitnam, China, Cuba, or any country where they could be killed or tortured when they get there.
Would that therefore make then legal aliens or are they "in limbo-land"
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espeir wrote:
The parents probably get to stay.
As legal or illegal ?
espeir wrote:
if a Cuban national makes it onto American soil, they are immediately granted amnesty and residency and are therefore not illegal aliens
The moment they arrive do you have a rule which says something like "upon your arrival you must immediately request asylum or leave this country", or is it automatic asylum. But I recall that if a Cuban, on a "boat", is in international waters between Cuba and Florida, they can be returned to Cuba.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
The moment they arrive do you have a rule which says something like "upon your arrival you must immediately request asylum or leave this country", or is it automatic asylum.
No, it is not automatic asylum. They are locked in Federal prison for a period of time (I don't recall the length). They have to go through a bunch of legal hoops, and eventually they are released...but they don't just get to run off into the sunset when they get on dry land. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
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EricDV wrote:
political correctness
I don't think there is a government anywhere on this planet that will not conceil, hide or say differently, the things they actually mean. X| I never understood why. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't matter if you don't. :beer:
:jig:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_correct[^] ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
The moment they arrive do you have a rule which says something like "upon your arrival you must immediately request asylum or leave this country", or is it automatic asylum.
No, it is not automatic asylum. They are locked in Federal prison for a period of time (I don't recall the length). They have to go through a bunch of legal hoops, and eventually they are released...but they don't just get to run off into the sunset when they get on dry land. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
But they are granted automatic asylum, aren't they?
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EricDV wrote:
Of course, those I knew took their children with them when they were sent back
So America would permit deporting a child of an illegal alien even if that child was born in the USA.
EricDV wrote:
cannot be deported after their release to countries such as Veitnam, China, Cuba, or any country where they could be killed or tortured when they get there.
Would that therefore make then legal aliens or are they "in limbo-land"
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
So America would permit deporting a child of an illegal alien even if that child was born in the USA.
I didn't say that. What I said was that they parents can be deported - this much I know. About the children, I'm not sure. I think the children are citizens, even if the parents got here illegally - but like I said, I don't know. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
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EricDV wrote:
Of course, those I knew took their children with them when they were sent back
So America would permit deporting a child of an illegal alien even if that child was born in the USA.
EricDV wrote:
cannot be deported after their release to countries such as Veitnam, China, Cuba, or any country where they could be killed or tortured when they get there.
Would that therefore make then legal aliens or are they "in limbo-land"
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
So America would permit deporting a child of an illegal alien even if that child was born in the USA.
Mexicans actually run across the border when 9 months pregnant so that their baby can plop out on American soil. It's not like their parents and they live here for years first.
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Espeir, Excuse this query from a Brit, but I am a little confused.
espeir wrote:
Shog9 wrote: What about the ones who came here legally, but can't legally work here? They are NOT illegal aliens if they are legally here.
I don't understand, pleae explain... If a person is not an illegal alien why is it then that such a person is not legally allowed to work?
Example of someone who is here legally, but is not allowed to work: My office mate is here on a work visa, when his wife arrives, she will be here as dependent of HIS visa, but SHE is not allowed to work herself.
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Shog9 wrote:
What about the ones who came here legally, but were supposed to leave after a short visit?
Illegal
Shog9 wrote:
What about the ones who came here legally, but can't legally work here?
If they DO work here: Illegal
Shog9 wrote:
The danger here is that you become too addicted to the semantics
It is about the law - not just semantics (unless maybe much of law is really just semantic). When people break the law, we can be sympathetic with them - but that doesn't mean they didn't break the law. Using watered down terms like "undocumented" is an attempt to make the presence of illegals more acceptable to those who are easily influenced. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
Have you ever wandered onto someone else's property without their permission? If so, they you were there ILLEGALLY! You are a trespasser! A criminal! Why aren't you in jail???
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But they are granted automatic asylum, aren't they?
espeir wrote:
But they are granted automatic asylum, aren't they?
I have a Cuban friend that floated over with some buddies on a raft they made out of inner-toobs. When the coast guard caught them, they were taken to some prison (I think it was Guantanamo Bay) where they stayed for 6 months or a year (can't remember). They had to be appointed an attorney, do all this legal mumbo jumbo in Federal Court, etc. I guess if you consider that "automatic asylum," then sure. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
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Have you ever wandered onto someone else's property without their permission? If so, they you were there ILLEGALLY! You are a trespasser! A criminal! Why aren't you in jail???
I could be if it were intentionally (like there were clearly marked signs that I ignored). Or I could be shot.
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espeir wrote:
But they are granted automatic asylum, aren't they?
I have a Cuban friend that floated over with some buddies on a raft they made out of inner-toobs. When the coast guard caught them, they were taken to some prison (I think it was Guantanamo Bay) where they stayed for 6 months or a year (can't remember). They had to be appointed an attorney, do all this legal mumbo jumbo in Federal Court, etc. I guess if you consider that "automatic asylum," then sure. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
If the Coast Guard caught them, that implies that they never made it to shore.
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Have you ever wandered onto someone else's property without their permission? If so, they you were there ILLEGALLY! You are a trespasser! A criminal! Why aren't you in jail???
Tim Carmichael wrote:
wandered
Key word. Whoever wandered across the border, wandered into a job, house, etc.?
Tim Carmichael wrote:
You are a trespasser! A criminal!
I'm not saying I'm any better than them...as one of my earlier posts stated. However, there are different degrees of breaking the law. Accidentally tresspassing on private property and sneaking into a country are hardly equivalent. Come on man, the point is to just call a spade a spade. I don't blame people for wanting to come to our country. In fact, I have illegal immigrants for friends - and I'm not going to turn them in (how's that for breaking the law). I'm not calling my friends "undocumented immigrants" either. ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
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If the Coast Guard caught them, that implies that they never made it to shore.
espeir wrote:
If the Coast Guard caught them, that implies that they never made it to shore.
True. But, I doubt it matters. I don't know the facts on this though. However, I do know our government and legal system enough to know that they are NOT going to legislate illegal immigrants the freedom to wander around once they hit dry land - whatever country they are from. Our system loves paperwork, and nobody can avoid that. (Even though it does seem that many turn a blind eye, that isn't the position of federal law.) ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
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espeir wrote:
If the Coast Guard caught them, that implies that they never made it to shore.
True. But, I doubt it matters. I don't know the facts on this though. However, I do know our government and legal system enough to know that they are NOT going to legislate illegal immigrants the freedom to wander around once they hit dry land - whatever country they are from. Our system loves paperwork, and nobody can avoid that. (Even though it does seem that many turn a blind eye, that isn't the position of federal law.) ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
I think they have to do the paperwork, but I thought that once they hit dry land it's basically a sure thing.
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espeir wrote:
If the Coast Guard caught them, that implies that they never made it to shore.
True. But, I doubt it matters. I don't know the facts on this though. However, I do know our government and legal system enough to know that they are NOT going to legislate illegal immigrants the freedom to wander around once they hit dry land - whatever country they are from. Our system loves paperwork, and nobody can avoid that. (Even though it does seem that many turn a blind eye, that isn't the position of federal law.) ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
Here are the details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_Foot-Dry_Foot_Policy[^]
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That's racist to suggest that all undocumented migrants (I prefer "migrant" to "immigrant" because it breaks down borders) are Mexican....Bigot.
I didn't see him say that. I did see him cover himself against the fact that most illegals are surely Mexican ( just coz they can plain walk in, as opposed to, say, Zimbabwean illegal immigrants ), and so people would make that accusation. Or are you claiming that people are fleeing Canada ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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I didn't see him say that. I did see him cover himself against the fact that most illegals are surely Mexican ( just coz they can plain walk in, as opposed to, say, Zimbabwean illegal immigrants ), and so people would make that accusation. Or are you claiming that people are fleeing Canada ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Did you hear about a group representing the "pigmentally-challenged" protesting the use of an albino in the Davinci Code movie? I mean, let's just change a fundamentally important character so that we don't insult other albinos... What a crock of shit...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001-- modified at 20:53 Thursday 25th May, 2006
Well lets see those protest on a sunny day in california :P