What constitutes a professional application?
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
For Windows apps, Microsoft has a list of features/qualities your application must have to be able to display the Windows Logo on your display box (or website). Its listed in MSDN. If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
If the interface is intuitive, reasonably bug-free, and allows me to easily yet flexibly do whatever task it is I'm supposed to do with the application, then I'd consider it "professional". I think the features you listed are nice, but I'm not sure most users even bother to learn how to customize shortcuts or toolbars, unless it's an application that users will work with "a lot". The application should fit within its target market. For example, Photoshop is not intuitive, in my mind, for the casual photo editor. Though, for the professional it is powerful and flexible enough to meet their demands, so a larger learning curve can be overlooked. BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
For starters; not seeing crappy errors bubble up to the UI. I get furious when I see a dialog saying something like "OLE Error 632w512463546521 has occured.....Goodbye" Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
A dancing paperclip.
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Hi Marc I think what one professional application does fine what did developed for. By example, if I search one RSS aggregator, ok , I will scan the menus and Tools->Options if exists options to import/export opml, categorize all my subscriptions, if renders html well, updating time, etc. If the basic pre-requisites met, then I will check the advanced features, if some. Too, is good is the app has one website with updates, then I will use always the last released version. One website is really very important, with feedback forms, of course! One sample of pro app, is notepad2 (http://www.flos-freeware.ch/[^]). It's a very very nice free opensource app, but since June 24, 2004 is not updated... []'s Fabio Jesus is Love! Tell to someone! :-)
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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For Windows apps, Microsoft has a list of features/qualities your application must have to be able to display the Windows Logo on your display box (or website). Its listed in MSDN. If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
Zac Howland wrote:
to display the Windows Logo on your display box
Hmmm. There's a thought. Thanks for pointing that out. Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
(only to be disappointed later, of course).
I would rather be disappointed first and go ahead to find out that the software has lot of features and really has everything I looked for.
Marc Clifton wrote:
you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this"
Going by the requirements by most of the clients I work with, the most common things they ask for is. 1) Dockable/slidable toolbars 2) Options to change Fonts/Color/Themes 3) Understandable tool tips 4) Nice images for the buttons 5) A customisable menu on the left hand side corner to add the commonly viewed forms. 6) Avoiding to many pop up forms. Many of them prefer to work with a single screen. Most of them even dont want to have tab pages,they say its to old a thing. Hope these are small simple things which could bring in the wow effect.
Tarakeshwar MCP, CCIE Q(R&S) Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. !sgub evah t'nseod margorP sihT ?sgub naem ayaddahW
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A dancing paperclip.
:laugh: BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
What you said and a couple more
- documentation
- help files
- MRU
- customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves)
- shortcut remapping (if appropriate
...6. Proper error handling - A well thought out UI
- Controls evenly spaced.
- Control acelerators
- Use of standard coloring, (I have seen far to many apps where the devoloper has decided they like a bright [insert color here] ui, very X|
- Icons that dont look look like a three year old created them.
A good study on what NOT to create, Blutus Notes. Everything about that emm err application is just wrong.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley: -- modified at 10:29 Thursday 1st June, 2006
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What you said and a couple more
- documentation
- help files
- MRU
- customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves)
- shortcut remapping (if appropriate
...6. Proper error handling - A well thought out UI
- Controls evenly spaced.
- Control acelerators
- Use of standard coloring, (I have seen far to many apps where the devoloper has decided they like a bright [insert color here] ui, very X|
- Icons that dont look look like a three year old created them.
A good study on what NOT to create, Blutus Notes. Everything about that emm err application is just wrong.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley: -- modified at 10:29 Thursday 1st June, 2006
S Douglas wrote:
Icons that dont look look like a three year old created them.
Do you know how hard that is? Ugh, I'm the world's worst icon creator. A three year old could create better looking icons than I! Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
When i start an app for the first time, i nearly always have some goal in mind ("edit this image", "backup these files", "analyze this data"...) - the faster the app helps me achieve that goal, the better. This means, points are lost instantly for a cluttered interface, and also for an empty MDI window with lots of menus. Toolbars are rarely a good way to discover features, but some are constructed well enough that they can hint at what's available - good icons and good grouping (and text labels) can help a lot here. Being able to customize the toolbar is never on my mind when first starting an app - by the time i look for that ability, i've already spent an afternoon cursing whatever madman laid out the default toolbar. The biggest factors for me when looking for professionalism are also the simplest: are controls aligned, is there enough space between them, is everything properly labeled, are the fonts and colors consistent and tasteful... I hate to make this another "rip on VB" thread, but there's a reason most of us can identify VB apps within seconds of seeing the first screen: lots of garish colors, a mish-mash of font faces and styles, mis-aligned controls, lots of cluttered forms... the hallmarks of the classic "in-house VB app" are those of an "unprofessional" app.
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
First off: the initial look and feel of the application, both with the splash screen and the UI. If I click the icon and a pleasant, functional splash screen comes up that informs me of what is happening, great. Next the look and feel of the UI -- no garrish colors and rediculous icons. No interface that is built with the default Control.Gray everywhere. A menu that conforms to the CUI specs: File first, Window second last, Help last, View for options. Easy navigation and flow through the application that is intuitive and does not make me click a million windows to get a single task done. An application that exits without asking me "Do you really want to exit?" unless I did not save my work. An application that comes with a setup file that sets up correctly, does not litter my desktop, and uninstalls without me needing to delete all of your directories and registry settings. An application that works the first time without the need to download a patch after setup. Finally, if I do need help, a help file is there. Better if there is contextual help as well, but I'd settle for a help file that lets me find the answer quickly via the Help..info window. I used one application that had a key feature in it and that feature was completely left out of the help manual.....even though other elements of the help file point you to using this feature!!!
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S Douglas wrote:
Icons that dont look look like a three year old created them.
Do you know how hard that is? Ugh, I'm the world's worst icon creator. A three year old could create better looking icons than I! Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
Do you know how hard that is
Yes, I do, thats why I don't / can't create professional applications :) I tend to use what evers part of VS. They work and don't look like I created them with my coloring crayon. :)
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Do you know how hard that is
Yes, I do, thats why I don't / can't create professional applications :) I tend to use what evers part of VS. They work and don't look like I created them with my coloring crayon. :)
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
S Douglas wrote:
I tend to use what evers part of VS.
I was wondering if the icons in VS, SQL Server Enterprise Manager, etc., are actually copyrighted? Can MS sue you for using their icons? I sort of expect so. :~ Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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S Douglas wrote:
I tend to use what evers part of VS.
I was wondering if the icons in VS, SQL Server Enterprise Manager, etc., are actually copyrighted? Can MS sue you for using their icons? I sort of expect so. :~ Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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First off: the initial look and feel of the application, both with the splash screen and the UI. If I click the icon and a pleasant, functional splash screen comes up that informs me of what is happening, great. Next the look and feel of the UI -- no garrish colors and rediculous icons. No interface that is built with the default Control.Gray everywhere. A menu that conforms to the CUI specs: File first, Window second last, Help last, View for options. Easy navigation and flow through the application that is intuitive and does not make me click a million windows to get a single task done. An application that exits without asking me "Do you really want to exit?" unless I did not save my work. An application that comes with a setup file that sets up correctly, does not litter my desktop, and uninstalls without me needing to delete all of your directories and registry settings. An application that works the first time without the need to download a patch after setup. Finally, if I do need help, a help file is there. Better if there is contextual help as well, but I'd settle for a help file that lets me find the answer quickly via the Help..info window. I used one application that had a key feature in it and that feature was completely left out of the help manual.....even though other elements of the help file point you to using this feature!!!
theRealCondor wrote:
both with the splash screen and the UI.
Great points! Thanks! Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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When i start an app for the first time, i nearly always have some goal in mind ("edit this image", "backup these files", "analyze this data"...) - the faster the app helps me achieve that goal, the better. This means, points are lost instantly for a cluttered interface, and also for an empty MDI window with lots of menus. Toolbars are rarely a good way to discover features, but some are constructed well enough that they can hint at what's available - good icons and good grouping (and text labels) can help a lot here. Being able to customize the toolbar is never on my mind when first starting an app - by the time i look for that ability, i've already spent an afternoon cursing whatever madman laid out the default toolbar. The biggest factors for me when looking for professionalism are also the simplest: are controls aligned, is there enough space between them, is everything properly labeled, are the fonts and colors consistent and tasteful... I hate to make this another "rip on VB" thread, but there's a reason most of us can identify VB apps within seconds of seeing the first screen: lots of garish colors, a mish-mash of font faces and styles, mis-aligned controls, lots of cluttered forms... the hallmarks of the classic "in-house VB app" are those of an "unprofessional" app.
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Shog9 wrote:
but there's a reason most of us can identify VB apps within seconds of seeing the first screen
Ain't that the truth! Thanks for the great feedback. :) Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson