What constitutes a professional application?
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
What you said and a couple more
- documentation
- help files
- MRU
- customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves)
- shortcut remapping (if appropriate
...6. Proper error handling - A well thought out UI
- Controls evenly spaced.
- Control acelerators
- Use of standard coloring, (I have seen far to many apps where the devoloper has decided they like a bright [insert color here] ui, very X|
- Icons that dont look look like a three year old created them.
A good study on what NOT to create, Blutus Notes. Everything about that emm err application is just wrong.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley: -- modified at 10:29 Thursday 1st June, 2006
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A dancing paperclip.
:laugh: BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
What you said and a couple more
- documentation
- help files
- MRU
- customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves)
- shortcut remapping (if appropriate
...6. Proper error handling - A well thought out UI
- Controls evenly spaced.
- Control acelerators
- Use of standard coloring, (I have seen far to many apps where the devoloper has decided they like a bright [insert color here] ui, very X|
- Icons that dont look look like a three year old created them.
A good study on what NOT to create, Blutus Notes. Everything about that emm err application is just wrong.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley: -- modified at 10:29 Thursday 1st June, 2006
S Douglas wrote:
Icons that dont look look like a three year old created them.
Do you know how hard that is? Ugh, I'm the world's worst icon creator. A three year old could create better looking icons than I! Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
When i start an app for the first time, i nearly always have some goal in mind ("edit this image", "backup these files", "analyze this data"...) - the faster the app helps me achieve that goal, the better. This means, points are lost instantly for a cluttered interface, and also for an empty MDI window with lots of menus. Toolbars are rarely a good way to discover features, but some are constructed well enough that they can hint at what's available - good icons and good grouping (and text labels) can help a lot here. Being able to customize the toolbar is never on my mind when first starting an app - by the time i look for that ability, i've already spent an afternoon cursing whatever madman laid out the default toolbar. The biggest factors for me when looking for professionalism are also the simplest: are controls aligned, is there enough space between them, is everything properly labeled, are the fonts and colors consistent and tasteful... I hate to make this another "rip on VB" thread, but there's a reason most of us can identify VB apps within seconds of seeing the first screen: lots of garish colors, a mish-mash of font faces and styles, mis-aligned controls, lots of cluttered forms... the hallmarks of the classic "in-house VB app" are those of an "unprofessional" app.
---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.0.0.0 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.1 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
First off: the initial look and feel of the application, both with the splash screen and the UI. If I click the icon and a pleasant, functional splash screen comes up that informs me of what is happening, great. Next the look and feel of the UI -- no garrish colors and rediculous icons. No interface that is built with the default Control.Gray everywhere. A menu that conforms to the CUI specs: File first, Window second last, Help last, View for options. Easy navigation and flow through the application that is intuitive and does not make me click a million windows to get a single task done. An application that exits without asking me "Do you really want to exit?" unless I did not save my work. An application that comes with a setup file that sets up correctly, does not litter my desktop, and uninstalls without me needing to delete all of your directories and registry settings. An application that works the first time without the need to download a patch after setup. Finally, if I do need help, a help file is there. Better if there is contextual help as well, but I'd settle for a help file that lets me find the answer quickly via the Help..info window. I used one application that had a key feature in it and that feature was completely left out of the help manual.....even though other elements of the help file point you to using this feature!!!
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S Douglas wrote:
Icons that dont look look like a three year old created them.
Do you know how hard that is? Ugh, I'm the world's worst icon creator. A three year old could create better looking icons than I! Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
Do you know how hard that is
Yes, I do, thats why I don't / can't create professional applications :) I tend to use what evers part of VS. They work and don't look like I created them with my coloring crayon. :)
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Do you know how hard that is
Yes, I do, thats why I don't / can't create professional applications :) I tend to use what evers part of VS. They work and don't look like I created them with my coloring crayon. :)
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
S Douglas wrote:
I tend to use what evers part of VS.
I was wondering if the icons in VS, SQL Server Enterprise Manager, etc., are actually copyrighted? Can MS sue you for using their icons? I sort of expect so. :~ Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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First off: the initial look and feel of the application, both with the splash screen and the UI. If I click the icon and a pleasant, functional splash screen comes up that informs me of what is happening, great. Next the look and feel of the UI -- no garrish colors and rediculous icons. No interface that is built with the default Control.Gray everywhere. A menu that conforms to the CUI specs: File first, Window second last, Help last, View for options. Easy navigation and flow through the application that is intuitive and does not make me click a million windows to get a single task done. An application that exits without asking me "Do you really want to exit?" unless I did not save my work. An application that comes with a setup file that sets up correctly, does not litter my desktop, and uninstalls without me needing to delete all of your directories and registry settings. An application that works the first time without the need to download a patch after setup. Finally, if I do need help, a help file is there. Better if there is contextual help as well, but I'd settle for a help file that lets me find the answer quickly via the Help..info window. I used one application that had a key feature in it and that feature was completely left out of the help manual.....even though other elements of the help file point you to using this feature!!!
theRealCondor wrote:
both with the splash screen and the UI.
Great points! Thanks! Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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S Douglas wrote:
I tend to use what evers part of VS.
I was wondering if the icons in VS, SQL Server Enterprise Manager, etc., are actually copyrighted? Can MS sue you for using their icons? I sort of expect so. :~ Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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When i start an app for the first time, i nearly always have some goal in mind ("edit this image", "backup these files", "analyze this data"...) - the faster the app helps me achieve that goal, the better. This means, points are lost instantly for a cluttered interface, and also for an empty MDI window with lots of menus. Toolbars are rarely a good way to discover features, but some are constructed well enough that they can hint at what's available - good icons and good grouping (and text labels) can help a lot here. Being able to customize the toolbar is never on my mind when first starting an app - by the time i look for that ability, i've already spent an afternoon cursing whatever madman laid out the default toolbar. The biggest factors for me when looking for professionalism are also the simplest: are controls aligned, is there enough space between them, is everything properly labeled, are the fonts and colors consistent and tasteful... I hate to make this another "rip on VB" thread, but there's a reason most of us can identify VB apps within seconds of seeing the first screen: lots of garish colors, a mish-mash of font faces and styles, mis-aligned controls, lots of cluttered forms... the hallmarks of the classic "in-house VB app" are those of an "unprofessional" app.
---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.0.0.0 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.1 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums
Shog9 wrote:
but there's a reason most of us can identify VB apps within seconds of seeing the first screen
Ain't that the truth! Thanks for the great feedback. :) Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
I don't count "Winform" apps as professional...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
S Douglas wrote:
I tend to use what evers part of VS.
I was wondering if the icons in VS, SQL Server Enterprise Manager, etc., are actually copyrighted? Can MS sue you for using their icons? I sort of expect so. :~ Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
I was wondering if the icons in VS, SQL Server Enterprise Manager, etc., are actually copyrighted?
To tell you the truth I have no idea, but what I have created by and large are business apps used in house. So a MS lawyer would have to get into a "secure" environment in order to see I have ripped off their icons. I have seen a fare number of debates on this topic over the years on different message boards. In the end most people shrug and no body really knows. One thing I do know for sure is I have never seen a new story where MS sued someone for using icons they provided as part of VS. I bet if you rip off office icons or others that are part of Windows, they would probably object to that.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
When the requirements of the job are matched by the quality of the provided software application(s). Gold plating should only occur if that is what the customer has stated during the requirements gathering processes. A race-horse or a cart-horse ? Which do you want - the answer MUST be what the customer requires and nothing more. In other words, don't get carried way providing, for instance, customizable toolbars unless that is part of the requirements as discovered during analysis.
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First off: the initial look and feel of the application, both with the splash screen and the UI. If I click the icon and a pleasant, functional splash screen comes up that informs me of what is happening, great. Next the look and feel of the UI -- no garrish colors and rediculous icons. No interface that is built with the default Control.Gray everywhere. A menu that conforms to the CUI specs: File first, Window second last, Help last, View for options. Easy navigation and flow through the application that is intuitive and does not make me click a million windows to get a single task done. An application that exits without asking me "Do you really want to exit?" unless I did not save my work. An application that comes with a setup file that sets up correctly, does not litter my desktop, and uninstalls without me needing to delete all of your directories and registry settings. An application that works the first time without the need to download a patch after setup. Finally, if I do need help, a help file is there. Better if there is contextual help as well, but I'd settle for a help file that lets me find the answer quickly via the Help..info window. I used one application that had a key feature in it and that feature was completely left out of the help manual.....even though other elements of the help file point you to using this feature!!!
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
The applications I have that I consider to be professional applications are not the ones that I was impressed with when I opened them up the first time. They're the programs that do the job quickly, with very little effort on my part, and without crashes. Flashy graphics are nice, until I want something done now. Interface simplicity, performance, and robustness go a long way. If it's done right, you'll just take those attributes for granted.
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
What constitutes a professional application? Getting paid for it. :) A profession is something that you do for a living, so a professional app would therefore be written by professional programmers. Oh, sorry. Did you mean "What constitutes a quality application?" :-D Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!
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Let's see if I can narrow this down a bit. I mean a WinForm app, not a web app. I'm not talking about documentation and help files and all that. What I mean more is, are things like MRU, customizable toolbars (or even toolbars themselves), shortcut remapping (if appropriate), etc. required? When you see an app for the first time, what makes you say "wow, some good work went into this" (only to be disappointed later, of course). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Hmm. Interesting question. I sort of went through this yesterday. I've been looking for software to create product "box-shots" so I downloaded and tried about eight different pieces of shareware before I found one that I consider professional. In retrospect these are the qualities that I was looking for: 1) The user interface was clean and modern (aka XP-like). 2) All of the controls I tried had the expected functionality (I define 'excpected' as what I would expect from the other shrink-wrap software I use on a daily basis). 3) Visually appealing - good, consistent colour scheme, consisten icons. 4) No half-baked features. It was clear that there was a feature set planned for the software and those features were fully implemented. 5) The text used throughout the software was clear and concise. 5) The supporting web site was equally professional. Basically the software I finally bought was leaps and bounds ahead of all the others. Oh, in case you're interested, it was True Box Shot[^] Cheers, Drew.
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If the interface is intuitive, reasonably bug-free, and allows me to easily yet flexibly do whatever task it is I'm supposed to do with the application, then I'd consider it "professional". I think the features you listed are nice, but I'm not sure most users even bother to learn how to customize shortcuts or toolbars, unless it's an application that users will work with "a lot". The application should fit within its target market. For example, Photoshop is not intuitive, in my mind, for the casual photo editor. Though, for the professional it is powerful and flexible enough to meet their demands, so a larger learning curve can be overlooked. BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
theRealCondor wrote:
If I click the icon and a pleasant, functional splash screen comes up that informs me of what is happening, great.
I despise splash screens.
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brianwelsch wrote:
If the interface is intuitive
brian, this term "intuitive" came up on a project of mine. There was some disparity as to the definition. What do you consider it to mean?