All the Vista Bashing

[Chris Meech]

LOL. And you got one'd for it too. :cool: Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] The America I believe in has always understood that natural harmony is only one meal away from monkey burgers. [Stan Shannon] GOOD DAY FOR: Bean counters, as the Australian Taxation Office said that prostitutes and strippers could claim tax deductions for adult toys and sexy lingerie. [Associated Press]

[code frog 0]

That's a very *ME* centered view. You assume that you have all the answers on what an O.S. should have then right? We should come to you or better yet Microsoft should come to CP for it's feature list? Do you think they just pluck these ideas out of the air or do you think their vast cash and human resources might have arrived at the list of features using some other means? I mean seriously, do you think they want to implement "stupid" features? - Rex

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[Shog9 0]

code-frog wrote:

People don't understand that they have a choice.

Sure i do. I choose to whine about something that - from my perspective - is unnecessary, and will likely make my life harder. Think about it - if we're starting out with 5 versions, then by the time we throw in a couple of service packs, browser upgrades, .NET versions, and the server additions, we're gonna be looking at a really confusing pile of slightly different installations. For what it's worth, i whined about the XP server-based authentication deal when it came out, and i stand by my opinion that it's annoying, painful, and benefits no-one but Microsoft. I like other things in XP, but that doesn't mean i need to forgive the stuff i hate.

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[Judah Gabriel Himango]

Why do you think Vista is crap, John? I've found it far better than XP or 2k. The account protection needs work, yeah, but generally I've found Vista to be a huge improvement over what we've got now.

Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Goof around music jam with my brothers (with video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango

[Marc Clifton]

David Stone wrote:

How many of you who are openly bashing on Vista have actually used it for any serious length of time?

I think a lot of the issue is how Microsoft is positioning it and marketing it, not necessarily with the actual mechanics of using it. And frankly, I haven't heard one compelling reason from Microsoft, which is sad, no, pathetic. All I hear is about advertising experience, Aero Glass, and multimedia stuff. If I'm to say to my client, this is the operating system we should be targetting for our software, they're going to want to know why. What am I going to say? Because you and your entire customer base will need to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade your hardware so you can get a less "antiquated" experience? So, tell me why. Microsoft sure isn't. [edit]So, tried to delete a desktop shortcut of a system installed app yet? :laugh: [/edit] Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson -- modified at 15:21 Friday 2nd June, 2006

[Lost User]

code-frog wrote:

Don't install it if you are going to bash stuff that's "In Beta"

Here I thought the entire point of Beta software was to get feedback from users... :rolleyes: "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull

[Michael A Barnhart]

Christopher Duncan wrote:

no compelling reason to upgrade to the new OS other than enhanced eye candy.

Here Here

Christopher Duncan wrote:

as will my word processor, spreadsheet, database, business accounting program, web browser and email.

YUP, but the new graphics may/will have enhanced options for the hackers.

Christopher Duncan wrote:

I will, ultimately, have to upgrade for the same reason that my studio runs XP - because some yahoo of a programmer will require me to do so.

Or that game your son paid a months salary on will only run on it. :) (Oh yes that is the programmer you mentioned. :doh: ) "Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas."

[Christopher Duncan]

God probably uses a Mac. :) Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!

[Christopher Duncan]

W2K Pro, without a doubt. XP brings nothing of any significance to the party. And if your W2K crashes, you don't have to do the activation dance. Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!

[Zac Howland]

I've used Vista a bit (got one of the beta versions for sending DDJ more money). I will just say this: Microsoft's final products are basically beta versions, which means that their "beta" versions are really alpha's. Expect problems when you use it. Also, expect that at least half of the "advertised" features will be cut out of the released product because they couldn't debug them (or even implement them at all) in time for the release. If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac

[code frog 0]

And uh... CodeProject is the feedback forum? That's news to me. Feedback is slightly different it's a different context entirely. You can bash Microsoft in feedback to them all you want. Ripping on a product just to rip on it serves no purpose and wastes everyones time. If you feel strongly about it and you want it to be relevant to codeproject write a full-blown article discuss what you like and don't like. Remove the school-yard talk and make it something useable so that others can include it in stuff they are working on. If you aren't willing to take the time to fully investigate it, document your findings and provide feedback in the right channels you are out of line. It's that simple. - Rex

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[Christopher Duncan]

code-frog wrote:

That's a very *ME* centered view.

What other view should a consumer have? Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!

[Christopher Duncan]

That's because it was crude, unimaginative, and in general not up to his typical standard of sardonic cleverness. :) Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one! -- modified at 15:25 Friday 2nd June, 2006

[Michael A Barnhart]

Got my 5, With XP and Office 2003, we had better team integration. For those enterprises(like my home) that did not do much team based work. Little benefit over using W2K and Office 97. Everthing else at home was image. not business functionality. I am not seeing much. yes I have Vista on one machine. No I have not used it much, so still is a could be. I should not have to search for days to find, oh here is a reason to spend thousands upgrading. "Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas."

[code frog 0]

Well now we are dicing over some pretty fine points. I think it's fine to say you don't like this or that. My whole case is be polite. Take the time, do the research make your comments well thought and provide good reasons for how you feel. "This sucks." isn't something I can take to the bank to get loans to upgrade my network with. My statements are not against well thought rational comments. My comments are directed at people who are just spouting off. They read it on a cereal box and it's now gospel. Stuff like that drives me nuts. There's a wad in XP I don't like then I spend a few days on Linux and I come back to XP and it feels very nice. Microsoft could release 10,000 different versions of Vista and people would still be pissed off. That's just ignorant. - Rex

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"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.

People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^] and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)

[Christopher Duncan]

Yeah, and that Toyota will still be getting you from A to B long after most of its contemporaries have chewed the root. They may not be sexy, but Toyotas rock from a quality point of view. Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!

[Jim Crafton]

I think, based on what I've read, that as a company they have horrible communication between divisions, groups, whatever. So maybe they don't intentionally set out to implement stupid features, but the end result is still the same - the software has stupid features. Clippy is a perfect example of this. Microsoft eventually acknowledged this by getting rid of it (it doesn't appear in Office 2007 at all). I've been writing software for 10 years. I've tackled any number of signifigantly difficult projects. So yeah, I do think I'm qualified to critique *some* of their work so long as it's in the realm of OS's and user land software. And I don't assume I know all the answers by any stretch. However that doesn't then mean I'm a clueless newbie either. What's the point of having a beta if NOT to critique it? Hell make fun of it! The harsher it is, the more Microsoft can look at the feedback, and fix the damn problems, if that's what they really are. If no one complains, how will they become aware of any issues?

code-frog wrote:

do you think their vast cash and human resources might have arrived at the list of features using some other means?

Quite honestly I'm convinced that a number of their ideas for features comes from individual MS developers working on a something "cool", making a whizbang demo, and then that grows into a new feature(s). I know they claim to do all sorts of user testing, but I'm pretty dubious about how much that really ends up driving their software feature set. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!

[code frog 0]

Oh... I don't know. One that says, "Yeah, I realize that Microsoft didn't write this exclusively for Christopher Duncan. So I'll put up with some stuff." However, if you come from a Linux background at all it would be cool if you could (just like with packages) keep what you want and shelve the rest. As long as I have all the candy on the CD's I can install/remove it on my own. Anyway, my perspective is just the cynic. I laugh really hard at the bashers because most of them will have Vista installed as soon as it's released and to me that's quite funny.

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"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.

People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^] and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)

[Lost User]

I disagree. 1. MS doesn't live in a vacuum, several of their employees frequent CP and the Lounge. 2. This is the Lounge - per Chris: "The Lounge is a place where you can discuss anything that takes your fancy. If you just want to laze about and discuss things that don't quite fit elsewhere, then this is the place." 3. Sometimes on public forums when you point out a percieved flaw in a product, someone else points out why you're wrong or provides a different perspective that makes you change your mind. 4. If you don't think an MS-centric development site forum is a good place for developers to chat about the biggest OS development in 5+ years coming from MS, well... maybe it's time to take a step back. "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull

[Shog9 0]

code-frog wrote:

I think it's fine to say you don't like this or that. My whole case is be polite.

Fair 'nuff. But you've gotta admit, when choosing which version to install promises to leave you confused and annoyed, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the experience. To use another product as an example: it's been several years since i've last touched Rational Robot (an automated testing tool). Our QA dept. still uses it, but i don't mess with it. And yet, three major releases later, i'll still bash it every chance i get, simply because of the madness that was required simply to get the thing to run (setting up a license server, dealing with a grumpy web-based license key manager, then dealing with the mess installing the license server made of whatever machine it was installed on, then dealing with whatever fixing the installation of the license server broke in your key repository...). The software itself had it's own share of problems, but none of them are burned into my memory in the same way that those encountered while installing that pieceofshit are.

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