All the Vista Bashing

Zac Howland

I've used Vista a bit (got one of the beta versions for sending DDJ more money). I will just say this: Microsoft's final products are basically beta versions, which means that their "beta" versions are really alpha's. Expect problems when you use it. Also, expect that at least half of the "advertised" features will be cut out of the released product because they couldn't debug them (or even implement them at all) in time for the release. If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac

Christopher Duncan

code-frog wrote:

That's a very *ME* centered view.

What other view should a consumer have? Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!

code frog 0

And uh... CodeProject is the feedback forum? That's news to me. Feedback is slightly different it's a different context entirely. You can bash Microsoft in feedback to them all you want. Ripping on a product just to rip on it serves no purpose and wastes everyones time. If you feel strongly about it and you want it to be relevant to codeproject write a full-blown article discuss what you like and don't like. Remove the school-yard talk and make it something useable so that others can include it in stuff they are working on. If you aren't willing to take the time to fully investigate it, document your findings and provide feedback in the right channels you are out of line. It's that simple. - Rex

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Christopher Duncan

That's because it was crude, unimaginative, and in general not up to his typical standard of sardonic cleverness. :) Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one! -- modified at 15:25 Friday 2nd June, 2006

Michael A Barnhart

Got my 5, With XP and Office 2003, we had better team integration. For those enterprises(like my home) that did not do much team based work. Little benefit over using W2K and Office 97. Everthing else at home was image. not business functionality. I am not seeing much. yes I have Vista on one machine. No I have not used it much, so still is a could be. I should not have to search for days to find, oh here is a reason to spend thousands upgrading. "Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas."

code frog 0

Well now we are dicing over some pretty fine points. I think it's fine to say you don't like this or that. My whole case is be polite. Take the time, do the research make your comments well thought and provide good reasons for how you feel. "This sucks." isn't something I can take to the bank to get loans to upgrade my network with. My statements are not against well thought rational comments. My comments are directed at people who are just spouting off. They read it on a cereal box and it's now gospel. Stuff like that drives me nuts. There's a wad in XP I don't like then I spend a few days on Linux and I come back to XP and it feels very nice. Microsoft could release 10,000 different versions of Vista and people would still be pissed off. That's just ignorant. - Rex

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Christopher Duncan

Yeah, and that Toyota will still be getting you from A to B long after most of its contemporaries have chewed the root. They may not be sexy, but Toyotas rock from a quality point of view. Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!

Jim Crafton

I think, based on what I've read, that as a company they have horrible communication between divisions, groups, whatever. So maybe they don't intentionally set out to implement stupid features, but the end result is still the same - the software has stupid features. Clippy is a perfect example of this. Microsoft eventually acknowledged this by getting rid of it (it doesn't appear in Office 2007 at all). I've been writing software for 10 years. I've tackled any number of signifigantly difficult projects. So yeah, I do think I'm qualified to critique *some* of their work so long as it's in the realm of OS's and user land software. And I don't assume I know all the answers by any stretch. However that doesn't then mean I'm a clueless newbie either. What's the point of having a beta if NOT to critique it? Hell make fun of it! The harsher it is, the more Microsoft can look at the feedback, and fix the damn problems, if that's what they really are. If no one complains, how will they become aware of any issues?

code-frog wrote:

do you think their vast cash and human resources might have arrived at the list of features using some other means?

Quite honestly I'm convinced that a number of their ideas for features comes from individual MS developers working on a something "cool", making a whizbang demo, and then that grows into a new feature(s). I know they claim to do all sorts of user testing, but I'm pretty dubious about how much that really ends up driving their software feature set. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!

Lost User

I disagree. 1. MS doesn't live in a vacuum, several of their employees frequent CP and the Lounge. 2. This is the Lounge - per Chris: "The Lounge is a place where you can discuss anything that takes your fancy. If you just want to laze about and discuss things that don't quite fit elsewhere, then this is the place." 3. Sometimes on public forums when you point out a percieved flaw in a product, someone else points out why you're wrong or provides a different perspective that makes you change your mind. 4. If you don't think an MS-centric development site forum is a good place for developers to chat about the biggest OS development in 5+ years coming from MS, well... maybe it's time to take a step back. "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull

code frog 0

Oh... I don't know. One that says, "Yeah, I realize that Microsoft didn't write this exclusively for Christopher Duncan. So I'll put up with some stuff." However, if you come from a Linux background at all it would be cool if you could (just like with packages) keep what you want and shelve the rest. As long as I have all the candy on the CD's I can install/remove it on my own. Anyway, my perspective is just the cynic. I laugh really hard at the bashers because most of them will have Vista installed as soon as it's released and to me that's quite funny.

"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.

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Shog9 0

code-frog wrote:

I think it's fine to say you don't like this or that. My whole case is be polite.

Fair 'nuff. But you've gotta admit, when choosing which version to install promises to leave you confused and annoyed, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the experience. To use another product as an example: it's been several years since i've last touched Rational Robot (an automated testing tool). Our QA dept. still uses it, but i don't mess with it. And yet, three major releases later, i'll still bash it every chance i get, simply because of the madness that was required simply to get the thing to run (setting up a license server, dealing with a grumpy web-based license key manager, then dealing with the mess installing the license server made of whatever machine it was installed on, then dealing with whatever fixing the installation of the license server broke in your key repository...). The software itself had it's own share of problems, but none of them are burned into my memory in the same way that those encountered while installing that pieceofshit are.

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code frog 0

I agree with that. It's not the chatting that bothers me. It's the people who are just repeating what they have heard. I think if you go read back through my comments you'll see that's the thread I'm spinning. I just hate it when someone says, "Yeah, Aero sucks." and they have not used it. Have not seen it in fact they really couldn't name one feature of Aero and yet they are just spouting crap. I'm not pro-aero or against it but if you are going to just wagon-bash it then save us all the time of reading your comments. Chatting about something casually is very different.

"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.

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Christopher Duncan

code-frog wrote:

I laugh really hard at the bashers because most of them will have Vista installed as soon as it's released and to me that's quite funny.

I'm sure you're right on target with that one. :baaaa!: will be :baaaa!:, won't they?

code-frog wrote:

Oh... I don't know. One that says, "Yeah, I realize that Microsoft didn't write this exclusively for Christopher Duncan.

:omg: What kind of a primative, barbaric corporate culture would deliver a product without addressing this most critical of considerations? :laugh: Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!

code frog 0

Yeah, I've been there. I think most of the stuff from Rational really needs to be reworked. We had to use their whole test suite on C++ stuff ... made my colon ache. I just don't like it when people repeat what they've heard but not what they've experienced. That's the basis of my stand. The other part is if you want someone to take you seriously be very clear. * You didn't like what for what reason? * How does that reason have a negative impact on your experience? Etc, etc, etc... Spouting off with "This sucks." or "That sucks." is just schoolyard talk and it's drivel. Give some reasons.

"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.

People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^] and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)

code frog 0

:-D

"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.

People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^] and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)

realJSOP

It was reference to an identical post I made to the same guy in the soapbox, so I should at least get a 2 for subtlety, and a 3 for being able to use the same line twice without anyone knowing.

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Shog9 0

David Stone wrote:

So if I want to rename "New Text Document.txt" to something else, only "New Text Document" is highlighted. That's ultra nice, IMO.

Now, what would be Super Extremely Ultra Nice would be a way to change the extension of a whole bunch of files in one go, without changing the other parts of the name. You know, the sort of thing you can do easily from a decent command line, but probably can't remember the syntax for since you only need to do it once every few months.

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Nish Nishant

Christopher Duncan wrote:

They may not be sexy, but Toyotas rock from a quality point of view.

longevity might be a better word I guess. Regards, Nish

Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)

Christopher Duncan

John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:

and a 3 for being able to use the same line twice without anyone knowing

Hey, this is a programmer's hangout. We encourage code reuse! Perhaps you could provide an API as a service to those of less gifted and glaring wit? :-D Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!

Christopher Duncan

The latter is a product of the former. ;) Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Know someone who desperately needs to get a clue? Visit www.DownloadAClue.com and send them one!