Adnan's emotions... A white paper [modified]
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I agree with all this. And I guess I'm trying to understand this with modern events.
Judah Himango wrote:
it's apparent he opted to forgive and welcome back with open arms, rather than condemn to hell.
But that is when they asked to be forgiven.In the meantime, does he expect all of us to close our eyes and take a sword to the head? I mean if that happens, all that believe in him are dead. I really do not mind living next to jews, muslims and everyone else for that matter. I just get upset with these terrorist, and when we try to defend ourselves, we end up being the racist ones. It makes no sense. We should be able to defend ourselves and still be good Christians, right? My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
We should be able to defend ourselves and still be good Christians, right?
There were some among Jesus' folowers who wanted to wage armed rebellion against the Romans. He refused. Jesus could have avoided crucifixion by staying away from Jerusalem. He did not. When asked what to do regarding our enemies, Jesus gave very specific instructions. His main point was that you are not judged on what your enemy does, you are judged on what you do.
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brianwelsch wrote:
I haven't heard of a single globally vocal group of Muslims that have been willing to take a stand against terrorism.
There is no Muslim Pope to speak for all.
That shouldn't stop them from forming organizations. BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
brianwelsch wrote:
I haven't heard of a single globally vocal group of Muslims that have been willing to take a stand against terrorism.
There is no Muslim Pope to speak for all.
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kgaddy wrote:
We should be able to defend ourselves and still be good Christians, right?
There were some among Jesus' folowers who wanted to wage armed rebellion against the Romans. He refused. Jesus could have avoided crucifixion by staying away from Jerusalem. He did not. When asked what to do regarding our enemies, Jesus gave very specific instructions. His main point was that you are not judged on what your enemy does, you are judged on what you do.
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kgaddy wrote:
What about the Barbary Pirates 200 years ago?
What about the American privateers? Kidnapping slaves, stealing treasure, etc. There have been criminals throughout history, often doing it in the name of Jehovah, some in the name of Allah and some in the name of Jesus. That doesn't mean Jehovah, Allah or Jesus would approve.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
What about the American privateers? Kidnapping slaves, stealing treasure, etc. There have been criminals throughout history, often doing it in the name of Jehovah, some in the name of Allah and some in the name of Jesus. That doesn't mean Jehovah, Allah or Jesus would approve.
all that is a little OT. You question was when did it all start. My suggestion is, with the US in Jefferson's Administration. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
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I didn't advocate a world devoid of people loving one another. What I do say is that a reasonable world exists where most don't have to love everyone. A little mutual respect goes a lot farther than what I've seen of people running around mouthing platitudes about how they love everyone. The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
Tim Craig wrote:
mouthing platitudes
If mouthing platitudes was all there is to this love stuff, I would agree with you.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Goof around music jam with my brothers (with video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
and I don't think many believers do either
Very true what you say about living for others. I have trouble with it myself. It's very tough in practice; it takes a lot of humility, I can tell you that. It's tough, and I'm not very good at it yet. :) As for pornography, you know, it has nearly ruined my life on several occassions. Just be careful, my friend. Maybe it's not the same for all guys, but for me, it kept getting worse and worse with myself needing more and longer "highs" each time. Like an addictive drug, really. It truely has been a God-intervening-and-setting-things-straight that scooped me out of that mess. That's why I'm so crazy about God all the time, he's saved my life from me throwing it away. Now that I'm living a cleaner life and he set me up with so many good things, wow, it's like a fresh cool wind blowing into a hot house, God has cleared the air for me personally. Praise God for that, man! :)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Goof around music jam with my brothers (with video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
As for pornography, you know, it has nearly ruined my life on several occassions. Just be careful, my friend. Maybe it's not the same for all guys, but for me, it kept getting worse and worse with myself needing more and longer "highs" each time.
No offense Judah, but you are absolutely projecting your perception of yourself upon the atheists here. Just because you were unable to control yourself without God's help, does not mean that everyone who is an atheist is a self-destroying porn addict, or even a bad person at all. I'll stick to atheism because there's no reason to believe in any god until I see some evidence. And I don't really want to get into this conversation, I just wanted to make a note about your projection. Chris Richardson
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Christian Graus wrote:
Jesus respected the Law,
Yes he did and by law you mean OT?am I right?
Christian Graus wrote:
what was written as coming from Moses, was true and accurate.
ignore my lack of knowledge,if that is the case then why you say that OT is irrelevent for you.So many times when i referred OT ,you plainly rejected it by saying that its irrelevent.Contradictry statment of yours,isnt it?
Christian Graus wrote:
but you reject the New Testament ( or at a minimum, parts of it, I'm not trying to pick a fight OK ? ),
no you aint fighting and despite of difference I dont equate you with some christian extreemist. coming to your question.Well i am not scholar so my words might be misleading to you.What i meant to say that We as muslims are asked to accept the orignal torah and jesus' teachings which were in ancient languages not the modern bible like KJV etc which got introduced by Paul(i am correct?).I never said that we reject Torah and Bible completely,did i ever sound like that?if yes then might be my mistake tht i couldnt b elaborative or you misinterpeted me. there are occasions when muslims of that time went to jews and christians oldies of tht time for the confirmation of the events which were taken place before their own birth.I exactly dont know what were they but i think these would be about Noah,Joesph etc or some other civilzation who used to be there in ancient times.There isa verse in quran which i dont know exactly which orders us to accept things of torah or jesus teaching which wrre considered untemper by followers of christ and moses.I dont memorize those one of them was Trinity for sure because we believe tht God is one and He doesnt need any son at all.
Christian Graus wrote:
Gabriel comes to you and tells you what Jesus really said ? If not, what did you mean by this ?
To Muhammad(SAW).Gabriel(AS) had been coming since advent of Adam on earth and stopped comming after death of Muhammad(SAW).Tht is my belief Oh Fisticuffs, I Need Your Approval For I Am Misguided Without Your Awesome Insight Please Validate My Existence With You're Internet Powers By Pumpkinhead, Age 15 or something
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Yes he did and by law you mean OT?am I right?
Correct.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
why you say that OT is irrelevent for you.
I don't. I may have given that impression because in our discussion it seemed to me that Islam lives as if Jesus never came, and is bound by the law, but the point of Jesus coming was ( as He said ) not to do away with the law, but it WAS to fulfil it, and to make a path to God that was bound by rightouesness without being bound by law that is external to the body.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
So many times when i referred OT ,you plainly rejected it by saying that its irrelevent.Contradictry statment of yours,isnt it?
What I probably said was that the Law was given to Israel, at a specific point in time, and that under the New Testament, we no longer are required to ( for example ) perform animal sacrifice. The OT is relevant to me as it reveals the nature of God, but I don't live under the law as Moses and Jesus did. The NT says that it's not possible to be saved under the Law. It also states that Jesus is the only man to live a perfect life under the law. Jesus came so that instead of having a book of LAw, the Holy Spirit could write God's law in our hearts.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
not the modern bible like KJV etc which got introduced by Paul(i am correct?)
Paul wrote in the languages of his day. Am I right in thinking that you're saying you accept the first four books of the New Testament only ? I assume you don't accept Acts as it lays the foundation for the rest of Paul's writings being acceptable. Do you accept Luke ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
I never said that we reject Torah and Bible completely,did i ever sound like that?
No, you told me when I quoted Jesus ( from the Gospels ) and Paul that these things were written later and were not really what Jesus said. Which is why I wonder how you know what Jesus actually did say ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
I dont memorize those one of them was Trinity for sure because we believe tht God is one and He doesnt need any son at all.
The Trinity concept is not entirely in the Bible. But, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. This is where I don't get how you can say yo
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Judah Himango wrote:
As for pornography, you know, it has nearly ruined my life on several occassions. Just be careful, my friend. Maybe it's not the same for all guys, but for me, it kept getting worse and worse with myself needing more and longer "highs" each time.
No offense Judah, but you are absolutely projecting your perception of yourself upon the atheists here. Just because you were unable to control yourself without God's help, does not mean that everyone who is an atheist is a self-destroying porn addict, or even a bad person at all. I'll stick to atheism because there's no reason to believe in any god until I see some evidence. And I don't really want to get into this conversation, I just wanted to make a note about your projection. Chris Richardson
I appreciate your civil tone. You say you don't want to get into the conversation...too late! ;) Forgive me if I was projecting my own experiences; sometimes real situations that hit home for a lot of people are a lot better examples than airy spiritual talk. And since someone said you can live a clean life without God, and I called them out on that, giving a real world situation as an example of where things start to get tricky.
Chris Richardson wrote:
I'll stick to atheism because there's no reason to believe in any god until I see some evidence.
Hey man, you're not the first. :)
Later a few scholars got on him. "Teacher, we want to see your credentials. Give us some hard evidence that God is in this. How about a miracle?" Jesus said, "You're looking for proof, but you're looking for the wrong kind. All you want is something to titillate your curiosity, satisfy your lust for miracles. The only proof you're going to get is what looks like the absence of proof.
And Paul says this, regarding the right kind of proof to look for,
But the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can't see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Goof around music jam with my brothers (with video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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There are many groups. CAIR is one here in the US. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
The Fiqh Council of North America released a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism. The fatwa, "a religious edict," was endorsed by more than 120 U.S. Muslim groups, leaders and institutions. The fatwa states: "Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence against innocent lives. There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism. Targeting civilians' life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is haram - or forbidden - and those who commit these barbaric acts are criminals, not 'martyrs.' "[^]
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Then he will have to judge me when I defend myself. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
He will judge everyone on judgement day if you believe that sort of thing.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
What about the American privateers? Kidnapping slaves, stealing treasure, etc. There have been criminals throughout history, often doing it in the name of Jehovah, some in the name of Allah and some in the name of Jesus. That doesn't mean Jehovah, Allah or Jesus would approve.
all that is a little OT. You question was when did it all start. My suggestion is, with the US in Jefferson's Administration. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
all that is a little OT
So your stance is that acts of terrorism by Americans never count, but any act of terrorism by any Muslim anywhere for any purpose counts toward the 200 year history of Muslim terrorism? That seems rather one-sided.
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It started with a group of Islamic nomads in the 11th century. I can't remember the name of it but the word Assassin comes from it.
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My Adnan is a representative of Muslim.Dont confuse him with Adnan Siddiqui Even If you beat your mother there would be two opinitons.Can we formulate certain rules and ask others to follow this.Definitely there would be protests. Eventhough I am not one of them ,I should say muslims are the most stressed community nowadays.Their rituals,customs,way of life and everything has been a source for criticism by others.Mainly because most of their practices might appear too much conservative to others. But the discipline of the Muslim lifestyle is unimaginable (I often wondered when my Muslim friends offer their unchallengeable daily prayers and fast without even having drop of water during Ramsan period). The silent agitation against Muslims got strong after 9/11. And we can see many instances after that the whole community being crucified on daily basis .We could have definitely seen that the campaigning against Islam terrorism has been converted against the whole Islam.Whether it is the murder of an innocent brazilian by London police or the mass visa denial to U.S for those who have muslim naims. It’s understandable how much this would have hurt the majority of Muslims. We can imagine the mental stress of a normal muslim who is being viewed strange creature by the so called do gooders.Even sikhs have been harrassed simply because they keeps beard and turbon. We can not see the Mohammed cartoons as a separate issue, rather it could be seen as the continuation of that campaigning against Islam. This and only this provoked Islamists all over the world. And as like supplying petrol to fire many newspapers republished the cartoons aggressively saying the issue of freedom of speech. But the community would have been respected if the protests were peaceful Some people would quote the comparatively mild protests towards Davinci code by Christians. But we should not forget that there is no coordinated campigining towards Christianity and this was an odd one. But be it Pardha, liberation of women, shariah ..Everything in Islam has become a subject to crticism. And when they criticize they are forgetting that all religions in the world have black histories and all of them had built up on mere faith rather than concrete proofs. I have seen no Indian newspaper supporting the war in Iraq. And the recent voting of India against Iran has been criticized highly in India. So what we need is a mind to accept others, even if they are opposing our attitudes. And we shou
I havent contribured anythging after my initital post.But it was cool to see the responses and I did understand that nobody is going to change their opinion. So Anti Islamist will continue to bash islam for everything.This will make Islam more violent.Some clever people will use this to spread their own relegion as like fishing in the dirty pond.World will become more and more unstable. What a pity:doh: