Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. The Lounge
  3. Programmer's Bias

Programmer's Bias

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
javascriptcomhelpquestion
33 Posts 25 Posters 0 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • R Rama Krishna Vavilala

    I have been doing a bunch of JavaScript and Ajax/Atlas work recently: investigating different toolkits and getting things to work on different browsers. A trend I found in most of the open source JavaScript libraries are comments like these:

    //Work around for Internet Explorer

    //IE BUG: IE does not render this correctly so add 1px to the width

    //Calling ... crashes IE so call ... instead for IE

    You will find little or no mention of FireFox. Now in Microsoft Atlas toolkit the story is different:

    //Workaround for mozilla. We can't just use ... because it doesn't work on Mozilla

    // calling ... here would blow up Firefox

    Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased? Of all the people I think programmers should be more objective but for some strange reason that is not the case.


    My Blog

    C Offline
    C Offline
    Chris Meech
    wrote on last edited by
    #24

    Well, it's interesting that you use the browsers war for your example, cause during the seventies and eighties, it was the terminals war. And as fast as one company 'invented' their special escape sequence for some new display characteristic, the others would bastardize their supported features to do the same. The net result as a programmer who built device driver's to support multiple terminals, was code littered with similar sentiments

    // Advance cursor to field location,...except for
    // IBM. Their attributes are prior to field location.
    // Turn on inverse mode. For H7700, go to end of field to turn it off.

    Welcome to the world of standards adherence. The more things change, the more they remain the same. I guess. :cool: Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] When no one was looking, every single American woman between the ages of 18 and 32 went out and got a tatoo just above their rumpus. [link[^]]

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • R Rama Krishna Vavilala

      I have been doing a bunch of JavaScript and Ajax/Atlas work recently: investigating different toolkits and getting things to work on different browsers. A trend I found in most of the open source JavaScript libraries are comments like these:

      //Work around for Internet Explorer

      //IE BUG: IE does not render this correctly so add 1px to the width

      //Calling ... crashes IE so call ... instead for IE

      You will find little or no mention of FireFox. Now in Microsoft Atlas toolkit the story is different:

      //Workaround for mozilla. We can't just use ... because it doesn't work on Mozilla

      // calling ... here would blow up Firefox

      Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased? Of all the people I think programmers should be more objective but for some strange reason that is not the case.


      My Blog

      J Offline
      J Offline
      J Dunlap
      wrote on last edited by
      #25

      I think often it's more likely to be a matter of what they're most familiar with, not with which one they're biased for or against. BTW I have comments in my Javascript code mentioning bugs and hacks for both major browsers, but 3/4 of them are for IE. In IE I've had problems with things like the absence of the ability to specify top, left, right, and bottom all at once for an absolutely- or relatively-positioned element, the fact that it doesn't set the "this" argument for dynamically attached handlers, the messed-up "float" CSS attribute implementation, offsetTop/Left vs offsetParent discrepancy, incorrect overflow:auto behavior, messed-up margin collapse, etc, and a myriad of missing or incomplete CSS features. The number of problems that have to be worked around will likely go down significantly when IE7 is mainstream - I think a number of the things I hit most often are addressed in it.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • R Rama Krishna Vavilala

        I have been doing a bunch of JavaScript and Ajax/Atlas work recently: investigating different toolkits and getting things to work on different browsers. A trend I found in most of the open source JavaScript libraries are comments like these:

        //Work around for Internet Explorer

        //IE BUG: IE does not render this correctly so add 1px to the width

        //Calling ... crashes IE so call ... instead for IE

        You will find little or no mention of FireFox. Now in Microsoft Atlas toolkit the story is different:

        //Workaround for mozilla. We can't just use ... because it doesn't work on Mozilla

        // calling ... here would blow up Firefox

        Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased? Of all the people I think programmers should be more objective but for some strange reason that is not the case.


        My Blog

        R Offline
        R Offline
        Russell Morris
        wrote on last edited by
        #26

        Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:

        Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased?

        Where is the bias in the above statements? It appears obvious to me that the IE folks developed against IE, and fixed for Mozilla/Firefox, and that the opposite held for the other party. That doesn't seem any more biased than any other design decision. If I develop a multithreaded app for Windows, then port to Linux/Unix, my code is going to be sprinkled with comments that are like "can't do this on Linux/Unix like this, so we need to put in this shim". It's not a condemnation of the Linux/Unix threading model - just a realization of the modifications necessary to the existing codebase for compatibility. IMHO, I wouldn't call these things biased. I would refer to those things as simply bitchy ;)

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • R Rama Krishna Vavilala

          I have been doing a bunch of JavaScript and Ajax/Atlas work recently: investigating different toolkits and getting things to work on different browsers. A trend I found in most of the open source JavaScript libraries are comments like these:

          //Work around for Internet Explorer

          //IE BUG: IE does not render this correctly so add 1px to the width

          //Calling ... crashes IE so call ... instead for IE

          You will find little or no mention of FireFox. Now in Microsoft Atlas toolkit the story is different:

          //Workaround for mozilla. We can't just use ... because it doesn't work on Mozilla

          // calling ... here would blow up Firefox

          Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased? Of all the people I think programmers should be more objective but for some strange reason that is not the case.


          My Blog

          J Offline
          J Offline
          Jeremy Falcon
          wrote on last edited by
          #27

          Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:

          Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased?

          Never underestimate the stupidity of people. :-D Jeremy Falcon

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • N Nish Nishant

            Tim Carmichael wrote:

            To put a different perspective on this, many people routinely bash BASIC and any derivative products thereof.

            Agree with you. C++ and C# devs bash VB. C++ and C# devs bash each other. Everyone collectively bashes C++/CLI. Jokes about Cobol/Fortran/Pascal are more popular than "your momma" jokes. Obviously, all these are further proof of how subjective programmers can be. Regards, Nish


            Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
            Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)

            N Offline
            N Offline
            nicknotyet
            wrote on last edited by
            #28

            My momma did write Cobol and Fortran, I'm a second generation software geek. NIK PS. VB is for weenies :laugh: PSS. Kidding of course, its just a tool and just because you use one doesn't mean you are one.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • N nicknotyet

              Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased? I think they are logical when it comes to code and design, but by definition they tend to be less socially oriented, and less socially functional as a result. A lack of social skills, cultural awareness, and coping skills, makes them more prone to being control freaks, and prone to irrational emotionality around things that contradict or support their locked down little worlds. In the latter case it can make them fiercely loyal to the school of thought that supports their particular world view, even to the point of being hystrionic, paranoid, or completely irrational - IMHO The beauty of bias is that we can rarely see our own because it is so deeply engrained into who we are and how we think. But what do I know, I'm a software engineer. :)

              L Offline
              L Offline
              led mike
              wrote on last edited by
              #29

              nicknotyet wrote:

              I think they are logical when it comes to code and design

              :laugh::laugh::laugh: Wait... was that supposed to be funny? :)

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • S Shog9 0

                When i start a project in VS6, then i become irritated upon moving to VS2005 and finding i need to make changes to certain message handlers because they changed the datatypes. When i start in VS2005 and have to back-port to VS6, i become infuriated upon being reminded of all the language bugs that i now have to work around again. And as Kant mentioned, the Live.com developers haven't been terribly complementary to IE in some situations, so even MS-employed web-devs are willing to admit the really bad problems (memory leaks, filter crashes...).

                ---- Scripts i’ve known... CPhog 1.0.0.0 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.2 - printer-friendly forums Expand all 1.0 - Expand all messages In-place Delete 1.0 - AJAX-style post delete Syntax 0.1 - Syntax highlighting for code blocks in the forums

                L Offline
                L Offline
                led mike
                wrote on last edited by
                #30

                Shog9 wrote:

                Cause it usually depends on where you start...

                Thank you. :cool: I would be interesting to see Ed do a poll that shows how many "web developers" think Firefox is one of the first browsers. :laugh:

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • R Rama Krishna Vavilala

                  I have been doing a bunch of JavaScript and Ajax/Atlas work recently: investigating different toolkits and getting things to work on different browsers. A trend I found in most of the open source JavaScript libraries are comments like these:

                  //Work around for Internet Explorer

                  //IE BUG: IE does not render this correctly so add 1px to the width

                  //Calling ... crashes IE so call ... instead for IE

                  You will find little or no mention of FireFox. Now in Microsoft Atlas toolkit the story is different:

                  //Workaround for mozilla. We can't just use ... because it doesn't work on Mozilla

                  // calling ... here would blow up Firefox

                  Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased? Of all the people I think programmers should be more objective but for some strange reason that is not the case.


                  My Blog

                  C Offline
                  C Offline
                  Chris S Kaiser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #31

                  Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:

                  Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased?

                  "Give a monkey a brain, and he'll think he's the center of the universe." ~Fishbone We're all still human no matter how logical we assume we've become. This statement is false.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • R Rama Krishna Vavilala

                    I have been doing a bunch of JavaScript and Ajax/Atlas work recently: investigating different toolkits and getting things to work on different browsers. A trend I found in most of the open source JavaScript libraries are comments like these:

                    //Work around for Internet Explorer

                    //IE BUG: IE does not render this correctly so add 1px to the width

                    //Calling ... crashes IE so call ... instead for IE

                    You will find little or no mention of FireFox. Now in Microsoft Atlas toolkit the story is different:

                    //Workaround for mozilla. We can't just use ... because it doesn't work on Mozilla

                    // calling ... here would blow up Firefox

                    Why are programmers, who are supposed to be logical creatures, so strongly biased? Of all the people I think programmers should be more objective but for some strange reason that is not the case.


                    My Blog

                    M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Member 96
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #32

                    In general they are not, particularly the ones that have a job to do and no time to indulge their bias.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • N Nish Nishant

                      Tim Carmichael wrote:

                      To put a different perspective on this, many people routinely bash BASIC and any derivative products thereof.

                      Agree with you. C++ and C# devs bash VB. C++ and C# devs bash each other. Everyone collectively bashes C++/CLI. Jokes about Cobol/Fortran/Pascal are more popular than "your momma" jokes. Obviously, all these are further proof of how subjective programmers can be. Regards, Nish


                      Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
                      Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)

                      P Offline
                      P Offline
                      Peter Wone
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #33

                      Your COBOL so fat, she got her own zipcode

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      Reply
                      • Reply as topic
                      Log in to reply
                      • Oldest to Newest
                      • Newest to Oldest
                      • Most Votes


                      • Login

                      • Don't have an account? Register

                      • Login or register to search.
                      • First post
                        Last post
                      0
                      • Categories
                      • Recent
                      • Tags
                      • Popular
                      • World
                      • Users
                      • Groups